Pam Wolf Posted December 13, 2002 Report Share Posted December 13, 2002 100% perhaps, if... and what is the percentage w/o the son's mother? And as for multi sire litters becomming the 'in thing', I have doubts about it's usefulness. If you observe repeat breedings from the same parents, often you will see variability both within a litter and/or between litters. What if the 2 sire litter thrown 5 pups, 3 from dad 1--now, what if these 3 are the 'worse' that this dog sires? You choose his son, so you know he can throw 'good' ones. In the case of a line bred bitch put to a line bred dog--and especially if that dog is related to the bitch, I can see where multi sire litters may help you decide which male.Since manyof the show bred dogs are very tightly bred,this could be a useful tool. With an outcross-which often gives more variable results in performance- I would not have much confidence in it's usefulness. Which also brings up the nature vs nurture debate. In the case of dogs doing 'sports' which have little relavance to 'instincts', much about the dog's 'abilities' or 'qualities' would be determined by the upbringing and training of the dog. Similar, any herding done can be greatly influenced by the training and experience of the dog. Just some random thoughts. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 Pam, I think a general misunderstanding might be prevalent here... In order to simply "identify" a genetic line - in depth, complete, DNA analysis doesn't seem to me to be necessary. All that is needed is for some "recognizable" and "identifiable" genetic material be found...so if one pup had some "genetic material" that could be traced to one dog and didn't exist in the other dog - a scientific assumption could be made...the same kind of scientific assumption that is made when an airplane wing is designed and you get on the plane. Is an airplane flying 100%, not always, other factors may affect that ability. You know me, I don't beleive much in life is 100%...but I do think genetic material is traceable - the problem comes in when it isn't done properly - which can happen more often than we might like to think. Remember, my expereince is in methods of genetic isolation in research and development - with very different controls than one would see in a clinical environment... Having fresh blood available from the mother would make it easier - not to do the dna isolation - but for an individual to look for an identifiable genetic difference, rather than a "random" search... The isolation of material depends greatly on whether it is fresh blood, frozen blood, buccal cells, buffy coats, hpv, dried, etc...and in some case, certain protocols have proven more successful in isolating certain types of markers than others. And then the method of analysis comes in - there are DOZENS of different methods and machines that can be used. And then, the results need to be "read" - and it isn't a case of simply spitting out a computer printout that may say - "Rover has the same genetic material as Spot"...it is a difficult process that requires brains, training, and sometimes "art"... And I certainly agree about litters from the same parents varying gretly - I think that is so true it borders nearly on a cliche - anybody who has been around for awhile has heard stories, or seen proof, that certain litters produced ALL good 'uns, while others failed...hinting to me that "herding ability" isn't all in the genetic material... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com [This message has been edited by PrairieFire (edited 12-14-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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