dot me not Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Well, my final pregnant ewe just delivered twins. I went up and fed/checked everyone at 7am and she was fine, not showing any labor symptoms. I go back at 12:30pm and find her with a big ram lamb and a dead ewe lamb. Looks like the ewe baby was dead at birth as she didn't look like she had moved around at all and still had the sack over her head. The mama is now rejecting her remaining lamb. I don't mean she's ignoring him, which I've seen before, she's trying to smash him into the walls. I've held her so he can nurse both sides and have them confined in a small 3ftX3ft pen so she can't walk off and leave him but she's pretty serious about not being a mama to this guy. Any hope for those maternal instincts to kick in here? When you have a ewe that rejects a lamb(s) on the first lambing, does that mean that she's likely to always reject her babies? (Meaning do I need to cull this gal?) Since she only has one lamb now and does have a huge udder, I thought I should go ahead and milk out some colostrum for future emergencies. How much should I go for? A cup or two maybe? As always, THANKS FOR ANY HELP! Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 I hate mama's like that... It seems the Ramboulliet bloodlines I had, had a propensity to do that... Sometimes I've used a dog to pressure them into taking them - having the dog on the outside of a pen eying the baby can sometimes work, sometimes you can use a grafting setup where mama is held in place and can't get to the lamb, sometimes I took them over to a mama that just had a single and sometimes I got so mad at mama I didn't wait - just loaded her on the truck for a trip to the stockyard, and bottle fed baby...I really don't have any patience for that type of behaviour so I never really gave 'em a chance at doing it again... Some mama's like that will do real damage to baby...so restraint and observation is likely required, in my opinion... But, I'm guessing that, "your sheep may differ" could apply as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot me not Posted February 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Well I tried the dog technique and she couldn't care less. In fact, I think she'd have liked it if Red ATE the lamb!LOL She has settled in just a bit better but you'd be amazed how fast and how many trips around that 3X3 pen this girl can make trying to get away from one lonely little lamb, but to his credit, that baby can just about keep up with her. He's very vigorous and is determined to get a meal even if it is churned into buttermilk by the time he gets to it! I'll definitely try the collar/crosstie trick to whoa her down a bit. I've held her several times already so he can nurse and it's getting easier so perhaps there's still hope. I'll have to eat pain killers this evening after wrestling with that blessed ewe. Been having rotator cuff trouble for 2 months and hanging on to her has really stirred it back up again! OUCH! I did milk out about a cup of colostrum and froze it. Would this be enough for a lamb in need or should I go back for more? This girl has a great udder so I'm sure she has plenty to spare. Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Hi Lydia, The dead lamb with the sack still over its head is a sign of poor mothering as well. A good mother would have cleared that sack away, even if the lamb was born dead. In my flock, this ewe would be the short list. I have no patience with a ewe that rejects her lambs unless there's some reason for it that is not her fault, such as several ewes lambing at the same time resulting in confusion or mismothering. I don't care if she's a first timer or a 10th timer. Rejecting a lamb is a "one strike and you're out" offense. Right now, the only thing this ewe has going for her is her bag full of colostrum, which might help you save a lamb next year. I would grab at least another cup. One potential side benefit of this is that if she starts to feel the relief that comes from letting down her milk, she might decide that she likes her lamb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot me not Posted February 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Would it be immoral for me to wrap my hands around this ewe's neck and squeeze until she dies? :mad: She's still trying to get the lamb, but not with quite as much gusto. He's a tuff little feller though, and can just keep nursing away even though she's trying to do the two-step on his head. Keeping her tied has stopped her from bashing him against the wall but the instant I loosened her rope she went for him again. I DON'T think she's gonna accept this lamb. I REALLY DON'T want to bottle feed him when there's a perfectly good udder around so I'm trying to figure out a way to keep her restrained for the next few weeks. Perhaps a tie stall type of thing so the lamb can nurse but she can't turn to get him. I dunno, but I'll think of something. Then that huzzy is out of here! How early can I wean this guy? Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharon Nunan Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Lydia, I had a similar experience with a set of twins and the ewe would only let one nurse and bash the other one away. I did a week or so of holding the ewe so the lamb could nurse and it got "old" plus the ewe got harder and harder to hold. I would supplement the lamb with a bottle and that gets old real quick too. I ended up hanging a small bucket of milk replacer w/nipples in the stall with the ewe and the sibling and the rejected lamb took very well to this set up and it saved me the headache of bottle feeding. You have to keep bucket clean of course and provide fresh replacer once or twice a day. I'm far from being an expert on this. Just sharing what has worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot me not Posted February 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Thanks a bunch Y'all! I should have been more clear about the loose rope thing. I didn't turn her completely loose but was just moving her to a clean spot. You're right, Inci, she sure made a mess in a hurry! I'll keep her tied for as long as it takes. If she'll come around and start to like her lamb in a few days that would be great! But if she doesn't then she can just be tied until weaning time. She's in a 12X12 stall bedded down with shavings and all the luxuries a sheep could want so all I'll really have to do is move her to a dry spot in the stall every day. I wish I could keep her from swing her rump wildly from side to side while the baby tries to eat but since he's doing such a good job eating on the run I may just have to let them live with that. I found that tieing her in a corner works better since she can only swing half as far in either direction before meeting the wall. Just slows her down a bit so baby can keep up better. Thanks again. Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi44 Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 If she still moves around a lot, even tied, you might try building a stanchion so she can't swing from side to side. T-posts, some pvc pipes, 2x4's, whatever you have, tie them up so that she can't swing her rear end around so much, but so that the lamb has room to go under them. Kind of tricky sometimes. I've just taken 4 T-posts before, pounded them in, and then tied up the posts between them. Ewes like this are a pain, and she sounds horrid. I've had ewes that wouldn't have a thing to do with a first lamb, but were fine to great from then on. Whether you keep her or not depends on her value to her (naturally, right now it's decreasing by the second). If she's something you want for her bloodline, etc., then try her again. If she's "just another sheep", move her. As horrid as this sounds, I don't blame you for not wanting to bottle-feed him. Especially with a buck ram (aka usually a market lamb), you can never make up for the cost of the milk replacer, let alone your time. If you do give up and pull him, if it were me, I'd find him a home with someone else - even if you have to give him away. I've known breeders that will let orphans die - I can't do that, but if it's a buck lamb, he's outta here - I can't justify the cost of milk replacer for a market lamb. You'll also want to watch the ewe doesn't get mastitis - especially if you do pull the lamb. If she's got that much milk, it could be a problem. If she's honestly producing too much, cut her feed back - hay, with little or no grain. If he does well, start offering creep feed to him in a week or so - especially if he's where he can see others eating or join other lambs in a creep feeder. If you're lucky, you might be able to start weaning in 8-10 weeks. I base it more on how they're doing, how well they're eating grain, etc. than age. Good luck - been there myself and understand that urge to murder those old girls. I've cleared out a lot of my problems. Had some that would have them, take care of them, but were careless moms - maybe lose one of a set of twins (or even singles) when they were 2-5 weeks old -really aggravating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaBluez Tess Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Hi Check the lambs teeth to see if they are too sharp. I has a great ewe last yr run away from her lambs and bash them as you descibed. I checked the lambs teeth and they were razor sharp. Took a fingernail file to the teeth and gave lamb back to mom. She was great after that. This same ewe just lambed today and was doting on her lambs. Both were nursing like there was no tomorrow. Diane Pagel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot me not Posted February 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 I weighed the lamb this morning and he's gained two pounds already so now I'm absolutely sure he's getting enough to eat even though he's still having to chase every meal down. Mama is still a PITA but if he catches her when she's eating she stands for him a bit better. I talked with my Vet friend yesterday and she was just amazed that he was able to keep up with her and get enough to eat. I figure at this point she's just like a dairy cow, and like it or not she's gonna get milked several times a day until this lamb is weaned. Like I said before I'm just not going to bottle feed a lamb when there's a perfectly good udder standing in that barn. The only problem is the brain attached to the udder! I don't have any attachment to this ewe at all. She's purebred Katahdin but not registered so her breeding isn't an issue. I'll keep her til the lamb is weaned then move her out of here. I've only got a very small flock and I figure if I cull heavily now it'll save me grief down the road when I do have more sheep to deal with. These guys are not a money maker for me at this point but I don't want to throw $$ away on them either. I want to add 10-15 more ewes this summer and if I have those numbers there's no way I can put this kind of effort into a mama that won't take care of her babies. Not that that's all that many sheep compared to the numbers some of you guys have, but I also have 15 horses a bunch of dogs and two small kids of my own, ages 7 and 4yrs, so I like to keep things running as smoothly as possible! By the way, just for emergencies I did order some milk replacer but haven't had to use it. I don't find an expiration date on the bag. Can I freeze it for later use? And Inci, I ordered it from the Wool Growers co-op you told me about and I couldn't believe the great service I got. They had my order to me in less than 48 hours! Lydia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot me not Posted March 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 Well things are looking up!! FINALLY after a full week of being tied 24/7 this huzzy is letting her baby nurse when she's loose. Umm, most of the time anyway. There are still times she'll keep walking off from him but he's doing great and she's not trying to butt him at all. She does butt the little ewe lamb that keeps trying to steal milk tho. A good thing, I guess. I still wouldn't give her the Mom of the year award, but at least I ain't bottle feeding! Can I freeze that milk replacer I bought that's still unopened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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