Beyond Motivated...Food Obsessed

[CalamityJess]

Good news is, Brody is fully on Blue Wilderness, and doing GREAT. No more gross poops. Nice normal healthy ones. Which means, I can safely use pieces of kibble for training. Nothing heavy. Mostly manners.

 

More good news. He is certainly food motivated.

 

The bad news? He's TOO food motivated, as in he is obsessed with food. For example, I ask for a sit, he sits, I give him a bite. He then completely loses his mind and starts sniffing frantically for more. Nothing I do, or say snaps him out of it. I got him a treat ball, he got so obsessed with the one piece of kibble he managed to get out, that he could care less HOW he got it out he just wants desperately to know where it went and goes sniffing round the living room like a dog posessed.

 

How on earth do I keep him food motivated, but not to the point he obsesses over it? I want to get to where he can be motivated by food, but also without. Where I can alternate rewards.

[Sekah]

How old is Brody?

 

I own a very, very, very food motivated Aussie. It's been awesome since she'll work her heart out for a bit of kibble. It's been a bit of a challenge in some situations where a toy would be a more appropriate reward -- if she suspects a food reward is an option she'll refuse all else until she gets it. (She's been much better at switching to play to food to play as reinforcement since I've been working on it, but it's taken some time.)

 

The number one thing I can recommend is working on impulse control, impulse control and more impulse control. Its Yer Choice is a great game to start off with. Search youtube and google for some descriptions of the game. Work on building toy drive in the presence of food. You may have to start off fairly far away, but cue some tug or ball playing, release, feed a piece of food then reengage play. Try to make the transitions seamless. If he refuses play you've probably made it too hard for him. Try to make it easier. If he still refuses, both food and play stops until later when you think he can reengage again.

[CalamityJess]

How old is Brody?

 

I own a very, very, very food motivated Aussie. It's been awesome since she'll work her heart out for a bit of kibble. It's been a bit of a challenge in some situations where a toy would be a more appropriate reward -- if she suspects a food reward is an option she'll refuse all else until she gets it. (She's been much better at switching to play to food to play as reinforcement since I've been working on it, but it's taken some time.)

 

The number one thing I can recommend is working on impulse control, impulse control and more impulse control. Its Yer Choice is a great game to start off with. Search youtube and google for some descriptions of the game. Work on building toy drive in the presence of food. You may have to start off fairly far away, but cue some tug or ball playing, release, feed a piece of food then reengage play. Try to make the transitions seamless. If he refuses play you've probably made it too hard for him. Try to make it easier. If he still refuses, both food and play stops until later when you think he can reengage again.

 

He'll be 11 weeks on Thursday. He's so crazed that when it's feeding time I have to put something in his bowl to make him work around or he'll just gulp it down in less than a minute without even chewing. I actually ordered a "green bowl" to help with that. No wonder he was the biggest in the litter the way he pigs out.

[Senna]

Instead of starting my own thread I'll share my experience on this one.

 

Senna is approaching 6 months and is very food motivated. Aside from that an excellent pup. I got her at 4 months and mostly hand fed her using that time to teach her sit, lay, shake, stay etc, but stopped doing that all together for the last month. Instead, I've been feeding her the entire meal in a bowl with a giant rock in it and making her go through those commands before she can get to the bowl. Lately she's been showing signs of slowing down a bit, before I could race her with a shop vac and lose.

 

Now she's showing signs of food aggression though. I bought one of those bowls with obstacles in it for her to eat around and it worked well until a buddy asked if I was able to take it away. I thought of course, I've done this many times. As I approached her feeding got furious and I got a little growl as I took it away. Whelp, I've got some work to do. She spends some days with my mother when we can't stop by the house mid day to let her out and apparently she snipped at my 6 yr old niece when she tried to move her while chewing on a bone... Red Flag!!!

 

My late border/black lab and current german shepherd/chickenshit (rescue) have always been free fed, meaning here's your bowl to share today, so I have some adjusting to do. My late friend Ishka, even when she was a pup I could leave an open bag of food out and she wouldn't touch it unless I put it in her bowl. Even then not a care was given, and Tara is the same way today. I was hoping that Senna would learn from her big sister.

[CalamityJess]

Instead of starting my own thread I'll share my experience on this one.

 

Senna is approaching 6 months and is very food motivated. Aside from that an excellent pup. I got her at 4 months and mostly hand fed her using that time to teach her sit, lay, shake, stay etc, but stopped doing that all together for the last month. Instead, I've been feeding her the entire meal in a bowl with a giant rock in it and making her go through those commands before she can get to the bowl. Lately she's been showing signs of slowing down a bit, before I could race her with a shop vac and lose.

 

Now she's showing signs of food aggression though. I bought one of those bowls with obstacles in it for her to eat around and it worked well until a buddy asked if I was able to take it away. I thought of course, I've done this many times. As I approached her feeding got furious and I got a little growl as I took it away. Whelp, I've got some work to do. She spends some days with my mother when we can't stop by the house mid day to let her out and apparently she snipped at my 6 yr old niece when she tried to move her while chewing on a bone... Red Flag!!!

 

My late border/black lab and current german shepherd/chickenshit (rescue) have always been free fed, meaning here's your bowl to share today, so I have some adjusting to do. My late friend Ishka, even when she was a pup I could leave an open bag of food out and she wouldn't touch it unless I put it in her bowl. Even then not a care was given, and Tara is the same way today. I was hoping that Senna would learn from her big sister.

 

Our recently passed Malamute/Shepard had food aggression when we first met him. He wasn't ours yet. That came a few months later when his owner died. That was the first thing we went to work on. With him, all it took was making him wait after we put his bowl down. Once he got the hang of that, we'd use a leg to push him away, and take his bowl for a minute. Make him sit, and wait again. After a couple months of consistently showing him who "owned" the food, his aggression was gone. But we kept up the sit/wait and added shake before he'd be allowed to go to his dish the rest of his life.

[Senna]

Try the hand feeding routine. Worked well for us. Might have to go back to it, but I'll try your trick first.

[CMP]

My puppy was/is very food motivated. Which is fine - but she is not allowed to be rude about it.

 

So we do that thing - which I was surprised to learn is a game called "It's Your Choice" where you hold food in your closed hand and will not open the hand or give any food until the dog backs off and acts mannerly.

 

Many afternoons I do a thing which many folks will have fits over, but which I cherish. We all have a group "snack" which is almost always English Muffins and peanut butter. Sometimes banana bread and butter. That is to say, I have tea around 4PM and my dogs like to have it with me. They all get a bite - usually two. I make extra for them (do not tell them this, it would ruin the fun of it) or I would get none for myself.

 

I eat, drinking coffee usually. I enjoy it and eat it leisurely. They all wait patiently. They look but they do not stare and drool or make asses of themselves over a piece of toast. If they do, they have to leave because that ruins my tea. I do not like having my tea ruined.

 

In order of age, eldest to youngest (they have a social order but I don't keep track of it and I don't much care about it - in my presence, I decide the damn social order or ... you know ... no toast for them) they all get a bite - sometimes we go around twice. They take the piece nicely and don't try to get anyone else's.

 

The plate goes on the floor and THAT they do get to decide upon (in terms of order) but I do make sure everyone gets a crumb at least.

 

When I have a dog that crazy for food I generally try to go as raw as I can go and provide much of their food attached to a bone. Is that a possibility for you?

 

Otherwise I would work a lot on the manners regarding non meal eating. Maybe the compromise is s/he gets to eat their meals as fast as is safe for their health but must exercise self restraint in all hand feeding. If you are consistent, the connection/difference between the two will become apparent.

 

Hand feed him a few treats (do NOT use his meal food as treats - ever) when he is hungry. When he is being mannerly, he may go and wolf down his dinner. Like that.

 

Border Collies make excellent connections - it is one of their great strengths as sheepdogs. They have a very high spatial intelligence and will work out cause and effect quite quickly. It's a layered process, how they learn such things and so the caution is not to expect them to learn it like a sit or a stay. It gradually works its way into their world view, if you will.

 

Good luck.

[d112358]

Pushing a budding resource guarder away from their food could easily make it worse. It's like punishing a dog for growling - they may stop in many cases but when they're really stressed go straight to a bite. I would toss high value treats in her bowl while she's eating maybe 3-5 times a week. This should make her anticipate treats when you come up and soften her body language.

[Camden's Mom]

In response to Senna's concern about resource guarding I wanted to second D's advice that a less antagonistic approach might yield more positive results. Your pup is very young still and let's face it, dogs naturally protect what they see as "theirs". This is normally considered extremely reasonable behavior when it involves another dog but when it comes to relationships with humans guarding isn't acceptable.

 

I would second the suggestion to, while she's eating, drop high value treats in her food bowl or nearby while casually walking by. You are trying to build the association that "people walking near me when I eat = I might get a yummy treat" as opposed to "people walking by me when I eat = they might take my food and I have to protect it". If you want to work on removing the bowl from her while she's eating offer her a high value trade (think a piece of roasted chicken or hotdog), praise and return her food bowl. You can play the trade game with bones/rawhides/whatever she's really into at the moment. Building a positive association with you handling her high value items will go a long way in building trust and reducing the guarding behavior.

 

I did these things with my boy who, at the same age as your girl, had a little growly stand off with my hubby over a rawhide. Like you, we realized we had an issue and got right to work. We saw good results very quickly. At two years old it's not uncommon for our dog to now "share" high value items with us. He'll come over and drop a disgusting, half chewed bully stick in my husband's lap as if to say "Hey dad, do you wanna get in on some of this good stuff??". My husband always thinks him, tells him what a good boy he is and offers it back.

 

I think it's important to add a few things here about over training against resource guarding. If you give your dog a bone or chewy that she loves and then spend the next 30 minutes trading it, giving it back, trading it, giving it back it's gonna be hard for her to enjoy her treat. The same goes for taking her food away while she's eating. Mealtime is one of lives greatest pleasures for a dog and being constantly interrupted/bothered probably takes a lot of the joy out of it. Dropping treats as you walk by could be done at just about any mealtime, since that's not as intrusive, but I would try to limit the amount you go up and actually take her food away or play trade games with bones and the like. Yes, you need to work on it, but remember to allow her to enjoy the simple pleasures in life too.

 

Lastly, and I certainly don't mean to offend here, I wanted to comment on your niece trying to move your dog while she was chewing on a bone. I would absolutely not allow a child to interact *in any way* with my dog while he was chewing on something of high value. Please, tell your niece that she should not bother your pup (or any dog) while it's eating. It's a dangerous scenario and puts her at great risk. Now, if the dog was truly in the way (like taking up the entire couch or something) then I'd ask your mom to only allow the dog to chew on a bone when she's on the floor and out of the way. You could even suggest she only be given a bone when in her crate, which would safeguard everyone involved.

 

Anyways, I hope this was helpful and wish you the best of luck moving forward!

[Camden's Mom]

I've had a very similar experience to CMP! My boy is super food motivated and when I put his food bowl on the floor he inhales it in a second. If I accidentally drop a few pieces of kibble on the floor and say "FREEBEE!" they are gone in the blink of an eye.

 

We did a LOT of impulse control training around food. This has yielded a dog who can wait until released to eat a piece of roasted chicken placed on his paw while he's in a down. He takes treats nicely form my hand, waits for permission to eat something that's fallen on the floor, etc. It's taken a lot of work but we've been able to teach him a good bit of self control around food. Having said that, once he is released to eat whatever is in front of him, he reverts to being a vacuum. I'm not sure there is a way around this, lol.

 

Now, your boy is a baaaaaaaaaaby at 11 weeks. Please set reasonable standards for him. At his age I would absolutely begin to train taking treats nicely from your hand. He should be capable of learning that pretty quickly. He should also be old enough to sit briefly before he's released to eat. You could probably begin to teach "leave it" with low value food but at 11 weeks that might even be pushing it. Remember he is still so young. Work on impulse control around food but always try to keep your expectations reasonable. Also, be ready for him to forget every single thing he's learned once he's hit his teens.

[CalamityJess]

I've had a very similar experience to CMP! My boy is super food motivated and when I put his food bowl on the floor he inhales it in a second. If I accidentally drop a few pieces of kibble on the floor and say "FREEBEE!" they are gone in the blink of an eye.

 

We did a LOT of impulse control training around food. This has yielded a dog who can wait until released to eat a piece of roasted chicken placed on his paw while he's in a down. He takes treats nicely form my hand, waits for permission to eat something that's fallen on the floor, etc. It's taken a lot of work but we've been able to teach him a good bit of self control around food. Having said that, once he is released to eat whatever is in front of him, he reverts to being a vacuum. I'm not sure there is a way around this, lol.

 

Now, your boy is a baaaaaaaaaaby at 11 weeks. Please set reasonable standards for him. At his age I would absolutely begin to train taking treats nicely from your hand. He should be capable of learning that pretty quickly. He should also be old enough to sit briefly before he's released to eat. You could probably begin to teach "leave it" with low value food but at 11 weeks that might even be pushing it. Remember he is still so young. Work on impulse control around food but always try to keep your expectations reasonable. Also, be ready for him to forget every single thing he's learned once he's hit his teens.

 

He has a ball in his dish now, that has helped. I haven't been using treats much, because it seems when he hits this invisible border between fed well and ooops too much we get the ickies. He's at 1/3 cup 3 times/day at least 4 hours apart, and is 8.8 oz as of yesterday (still the biggest of his litter).

 

So I work on "yer choice" with my hand from his dish at the beginning of each meal. Then make him sit and wait while I put the bowl in his kennel. And I guess puppies are like teen humans (I've raised two of those!) You get them using good manners when they're little and adorable then they hit the teen years and forget all of it! The only thing he's being taught besides impulse control and manners is bite control and ringing a bell to go outside.

[Tommy Coyote]

Are you feeding him enough? People here will know. But 1 cup a day for a growing puppy doesn't sound like enough to me. Puppies usually eat twice what an adult dog would.

[CalamityJess]

Are you feeding him enough? People here will know. But 1 cup a day for a growing puppy doesn't sound like enough to me. Puppies usually eat twice what an adult dog would.

 

In Brody's world if he eats over that right now he gets diarrhea. I'm sure the magic number is somewhere between 1 and 2, I have yet to find it without upsetting his tummy. The other day he had his 1 cup. And I put MAYBE 1/4 cup in a treat ball later. Before the ball he had perfectly normal poop. After, runs.

[Camden's Mom]

Just wanted to add, if you are looking for more ideas on how to slow down his food consumption at mealtime you could also turn his kibble portion into a "mush" (add water), stuff it in a Kong and freeze it. He'll have to work to get it out. Also, you could take his meal portion and spread/hide it throughout the yard or house and have him search it out. Both of these things would not only slow down how quickly he eats his food but also tire out his big ole' BC puppy brain.