Donalayo Posted May 3, 2001 Report Share Posted May 3, 2001 I was wondering if anyone was training their Border Collie in Schutzhund. I know the late Janet Larson had trained a few, but I haven't heard of anyone else. Thank you, Donalayo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danni Posted May 3, 2001 Report Share Posted May 3, 2001 Sorry I can't help you with your question, because I don't really know what Schutzhund is? Are there any good sites to find out the details - all I have seen so far has been rather vague in it's description. Many thanks, Danni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 3, 2001 Report Share Posted May 3, 2001 I know someone who has trained her border collie in schutzhund (or her husband has). this dog also does agility and flyball and herds. I guess she's going for the versatility thing. Anyway, she is located here in VA, and I could get you her e-mail address if you had questions you needed answered about border collies in schutzhund. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donalayo Posted May 3, 2001 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2001 Hopefully this will help... You can also get more info on Ed's site: http://www.leerburg.com (The following is an from Ed Frawley's page:Leerburg Kennels and Video http://leerburg.com/schusa.htm#three ) THE THREE PARTS OF A SCHUTZHUND TRIAL: The tracking phase includes a temperament test by the overseeing judge to assure the dog's mental soundness. When approached closely on a loose leash, the dog should not act shyly or aggressively. The track is laid earlier by a person walking normally on a natural surface such as dirt or grass. The track includes a number of turns and a number of small, man-made objects left by this person on the track itself. At the end of a 30-foot leash, the handler follows the dog which is expected to scent the track and indicate the location of the objects, usually by lying down with it between its front paws. The tracking phase is intended to test the dog's trainability and ability to scent, as well as its mental and physical endurance. The obedience phase includes a series of heeling exercises, some of which are closely in and around a group of people. During the heeling, there is a gun shot test to assure that the dog does not openly react to such sharp noises. There is also a series of field exercises in which the dog is commanded to sit, lie down, and stand while the handler continues to move. From these various positions, the dog is recalled to the handler. With dumbbells of various weights, the dog is required to retrieve on a flat surface, over a one-meter hurdle, and over a six-foot slanted wall. The dog is also asked to run in a straight direction from its handler on command and lie down on a second command. Finally, each dog is expected to stay in a lying down position away from its handler, despite distractions, at the other end of the obedience field, while another dog completes the above exercises. All of the obedience exercises are tests of the dog's temperament, structural efficiencies, and, very importantly, its willingness to serve man or woman. The protection phase tests the dog's courage, physical strength, and agility. The handler's control of the dog is absolutely essential. The exercises include a search of hiding places, finding a hidden person (acting as a human decoy), and guarding that decoy while the handler approaches. The dog is expected to pursue the decoy when an escape is attempted and to hold the grip firmly. The decoy is searched and transported to the judge with the handler and dog walking behind and later at the decoy's right side. When the decoy attempts to attack the handler, the dog is expected to stop the attack with a firm grip and no hesitation. The final test of courage occurs when the decoy is asked to come out of a hiding place by the dog's handler from the opposite end of the trial field. The dog is sent after the decoy when he attempts to run away. Just when the dog is about to catch the decoy, the judge signals the decoy to turn about and run directly at the dog, threatening the dog with a stick. All bites during the protection phase are expected to be firmly placed on the padded sleeve and stopped on command and/or when the decoy discontinues the fight. The protection tests are intended to assure that the dog is neither a coward nor a criminal menace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danni Posted May 5, 2001 Report Share Posted May 5, 2001 Dear Donalayo, Many thanks for taking the time to reply so fully. I also had a look at the site you recommended - certainly very interesting. While Schuntzhund is probably not a sport I would personnally become involved in as I don't feel comfortable with the defence/attack section of it for my border - but that's just my point of view. Also here in France, it is strongly discouraged by the Border Collie Association for any BC to become involved in any sport of this kind, ie. Ring, Mondioring, etc. Outside of that section, I picked up a few helpful hints from the web site - I'm learning something new every day - thanks again. Danni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donalayo Posted May 7, 2001 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2001 Danni, I don't know about other people who have trained their BC's for Schutzhund, but mine seem to be working all in prey drive. It is all a game to them, which is fine with me. We go out and have fun! Currently.. my male gets so into it that when the sleeve is dropped, he will try to toss it back the the decoy (bad guy) saying come on.. lets play! I have trained German Shepherds for this and I much prefer the Border Collies.. The shepherds get very serious about it. Anyway.. jmho... Donalayo ------------------ Want to know how your dog or cat can live longer? Contact me at petselect@yahoo.com or visit my site at http://www.healthypetnet.com/petselect/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danni Posted May 8, 2001 Report Share Posted May 8, 2001 Dear Donalayo, Interesting concept. I have to admit that I do not know an awful lot about defence/attack and the little I have seen over here has made me rather wary. In general ( I know it's wrong to generalise) it's a rather "macho" type crowd with German Sheperds, Malinois, Terveren, Beauceron, Rotts, etc. and to be perfectly honest, I do not feel comfortable going within quite some yards of these dogs as they are not at all that friendly - I realise that this is a question of how one trains and raises the dogs in the first place. There is also the other question that I have heard, that medium size dogs like the BC are too light weight and one shouldn't bother anyway. Have you not found that even though a BC may thoroughly enjoy this as a game, that there may be a risk that, teamed up with its herding instinct, the dog may go too far, particularly around children. Danni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donalayo Posted May 14, 2001 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2001 Danni, Our biggest problem right now is that the Border Collies are very concerned about the kids. When we are working the dogs.. the kids MUST sit and be still because the dogs get distracted by them.. want to check in with them to make sure they are ok. Donalayo ------------------ Want to know how your dog or cat can live longer? Contact me at donalayo@yahoo.com or visit my site at http://www.healthypetnet.com/petselect/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 My Elkhound has had her paw in the shutzhund world and has done quite well... from my experience the dogs trained in shutzhund are extremely well grounded in obedience and are some of the most stable dogs I know. The trainers I have worked with wouldn't train anything less. When the dog is trained correctly even 50 pounds can be an awful lot of dead weight and the force that they hit with is definately enough to knock you over. Attacking is only a very small portion of the training but my border collie could never do it because he just doesn't have the guts to attack anything. I don't know why you would want to though... border collies aren't much of a visual deterrant and most people would be better off just teaching them to act mean and growl on command without the actual attack. Just my humble opinion, Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoyalSheepDog77 Posted May 15, 2001 Report Share Posted May 15, 2001 My mom does Schutzhund with her German Shepherds but I am just going to get a B on my Border Collie if you need any info on Shuzthund Contact me at WildBorderCollie@aol.com and She will e-mail you info on it if you need it! hope you get what you need! ------------------ ~*~Elissa&Willow~*~ www.willowscorner.homestead.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donalayo Posted May 20, 2001 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 Kris.. I do this as a sport and sport only....tho if I was attacked..... even a small dog could atleast warn me or hold of the attacker for a minute or two. I do know that my Border Collies are having a blast, and I am also.. and after training dogs for 20 or so years.. it's nice to really enjoy working dogs again. JMHO ------------------ Want to know how your dog or cat can live longer? Contact me at donalayo@yahoo.com or visit my site at http://www.healthypetnet.com/petselect/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donalayo Posted May 20, 2001 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2001 Thanks Elissa, I am putting a B on my GSD this summer. I'm not new to Schutzhund... just working Border Collies in it. Years ago I trained a wonderful dog that ended up winning the Schutzhund I Regional Championship. We are trying to find enough people working Border Collies in Schutzhund to form a Working Border Collie Club for the AWDF. ( American Working Dog Federation) Thanks again.. ------------------ Want to know how your dog or cat can live longer? Contact me at donalayo@yahoo.com or visit my site at http://www.healthypetnet.com/petselect/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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