Which way to send the dog?

[airbear]

Hello,

 

I am VERY new to trialing, though my dog isn't. My question is: all other things being relatively equal (that is, no obvious draw or physical impediments on either side of the field) how do you decide which side to send your dog from? Do you evaluate based on which way the sheep are facing at set-out? Where the set-out dogs are? The direction of the drive? The position of the sun/moon/mountains??

 

To be perfectly honest, I send my dog the way everyone else does, which is not particularly strategic nor helpful if I'm first up.

 

Oh, he prefers the come-bye side for his outrun, though he can send to the away side too if requested.

 

Thanks for any advice!

[juliepoudrier]

Kristi,

If there's no particular draw or other obvious reason to send one way or the other, then which side I send to depends pretty much on the dog. I have one real wide runner, so if there's a fence or some other obstacle that will mitigate the wideness, then I will send to that side (again, this is assuming no particular draw that would require me sending the other way). If, as I'm walking to the post the dog keeps choosing one side over the other, I'll take the hint and send that way (otherwise you might be setting yourself up for a cross over). As an example of the latter, I was at a trial recently with a 500-yard outrun over rolling terrain so that the dog lost sight of the sheep and the handler of the dog on several occasions. The first day I sent my dog left (although she indicated she wanted to go right), and--you guessed it--she crossed in one of the "valleys." So the next day I sent her right, and she, well, crossed, again in one of the valleys. So even if you think you're outsmarting your dog, sometimes you're not!

 

But really, I always look for draws, whether the dog will lose sight of the sheep, and the like and consider that when choosing which way to send. I'm lucky in that my dogs will run out to either side equally well. If I'm first up, I'd look at the lay of the land, consider where the set out pens are and whether the dog might lose sight of the sheep on one side as opposed to the other and choose that way (while also giving consideration to the dog if it seems to be choosing one side over the other).

 

In the case of a strong draw, I will usually send the dog into the draw to cover it. So if the sheep are coming off the top and bolting to their left, and especially if they seem to be leaving before the dog gets there, then I will send the dog to the right so that it can cover that draw, generally by stopping short. In this example, the draw would take precedence over, say, choosing the side that would stop the wide runner from running as wide.

 

Does that help any?

 

J.

[cgt]

Hi. I can add very little to what Julie says... so of course here I am anyway.

 

If most everybody is sending in one direction there is usually a reason. There could be a strong draw, or there could be problems with vision - the dog seeing the sheep or the handler seeing the dog. I have been on some trial fields where it looks - from the post - that there are absolutely no vision problems, only to find after sending my dog or by walking the course that there are in fact such problems.

 

Anyway, let's assume none of that stuff is going on, i.e., both sides are equally good. And let's assume you are sorta like me, i.e., not foolish enough to think that you should try to be winning anything. Then this is an excellent place to see where you and your dog stand in the outrun department. Send your dog to its weak side and see what happens. If it is a 2 day trial, consider sending your dog both ways to see how things stand, to work through difficulties, etc. There is nothing like a trial to expose problems that "never happen at home".

 

charlie

[blackacre]

You know, I've done a similar thing, always in the expectation that even if I'm not competitive THIS year, I might be by NEXT year, in which case getting my dog out on both sides THIS year will give me a little bit of a head start on laying down a good run the following year. Hope springs eternal, apparently.

I also think another factor that no one has yet elaborated on is not only whether your DOG can see the sheep going all the way out but whether YOU can see your dog going out, so that you can heip him or her if necessary. A perfect example would be a local trial I attended recently. 500 + yard outrun, dips and swales and a field bisected by a farm track and line of trees (probably where a fence had been at some point. Now, being in either a hyper confident or irrationally arrogant mood, I sent my dog (who, to be fair, had nailed both outruns at Edgeworth a few months previously--450 + and 650 + yards, respectively) and waited. Complacently. Dog ran out a treat, disappeared out of sight well on his way past the partly-hidden sheep and . . . Bob's your uncle. Right? Or anyway, so I thought. In due course I began to whistle walk ups, figuring my partner was on the job somewhere behind the sheep. Yeah, this dog CAN on occasion lift slowly, and the sheep HAD been sporadically challenging, but eventually this began to get a little bit, ummm, painful. Come ON already, I thought, and, in the course of thinking this, happened to spy, out of the corner of my eye, my dog popping out of the adjoining field to the OPPOSITE side to that on which he was sent. Yikes! Well, I sent him back, 19 point loss on the outrun of course, and timed out on the drive. Poor bugger had gone so deep he missed the sheep entirely and spent a good few minutes hunting for them in the wrong field. Or so I was told by someone who was walking her dogs over there.

So, moral is--maybe--try to keep your dog on the side you can see better on, should you be less than confident in the dog, especially on a new field. I'm sure someone can come up with another moral but . . . I don't think I want to hear it.

(As an aside, the Seclusival field presents exactly these same choices. See your dog on his way out, although he may lose sight of the sheep, or have the dog be able to see the sheep almost all the way out, whilst you wait and wonder. You choose.)

A

[airbear]

Hi Julie,

 

Thanks for the quick reply! I feel kind of like the kid who hasn't done her homework. "Psst! Hey! Which way are you sending your dog?"

 

Anyway, Lou always indicates to me which way he wants to go, and it's always on a come bye. I guess I should listen to him, given that he knows a lot more about this than me, but I think it's odd that he has yet to meet a situation where he's telling me he'd like to be sent away.

 

And Charlie, do you happen to remember the show "The Greatest American Hero", where the guy finds a suit with super powers but there's no instruction manual? That's kind of like how I feel with Lou. "Hey, what does this whistle do? OK, that's a grip whistle. Good to know."

[Belleview]

Hi Kristi-

 

Another thing to watch for on runs before yours is how the set out team is effecting the sheep and the draw after the lift. Watch to see if the sheep are inclined to break towards the person's side or the set out dog's side. This dynamic may change if the trial uses various set out teams, and tho it is probably more a factor on shorter outruns and in novice classes, it can be important on big open courses, as well.

 

Obviously, on a *perfect* lift, the sheep should come off straight, but in most cases, you'll see the lifts that aren't correct are consistently incorrect to one side. Once you've taken note of this, think about what flaws your dog may have on an outrun and how those flaws are going to play into what is already going on at the top. This kind of watching may influence your choice of side to send, or just how you command your dog at the top.

 

Also, while it's great to let your dog choose his side, remember that you're the one that needs to call those shots. If you are in the learning stages of training and trialing, and still lenghtening your dog's outrun, be sure to practice sending him to the side he'd *prefer* not to go. In practice, try to work the weak side more than the strong side, so you end up with a dog that becomes a competent outrunner both ways.

[airbear]

Hi Lori,

 

Thanks for that. I have noticed that sometimes the set-out crew may have more than a little influence on the sheep, though I have no idea how to adjust for that.

 

We run in PN and Open, and Lou was purchased as what I believe you would call a 'finished' dog in that he was trialing at the Open level. He usually gets very nice outrun marks and very good lift scores. Well, he once crossed over on me, so that outrun score wasn't so good (perfect lift though). Things tend to fall apart when I lift the whistle to my lips.

 

Do you ever see *something* as you're standing at the post that makes you change your mind (besides your dog making a request?). My dog runs quite wide and very deep on either side and has done upwards of 800 yard outruns, but I'd like to know when to listen to his requests to start on a come-bye and when to put my foot down (so to speak) and send him on an away.

 

Thanks for your patience with me!

[Deacon Dog]

"If most everybody is sending in one direction there is usually a reason."

 

Good advice which I've intentionally ignored a couple of times and regretted it.

 

All other things being equal, I like to send the dogs to the heads which is usually the opposite side from the set-out dog.

[Bill Fosher]

All other things being equal, they're not ever equal.

 

I have only run two dogs seriously in trials, and I always found that if I sent them to the heads they came in too flat. If I sent them around behind the heads, they'd come in right and lift away.

 

However with one of the dogs that I just use for farm stuff, I could say to someone, "Hey, wanna see me make Nap cross over?" All I need to do is send him away from the heads, and the heads will pull him from whatever outrun he's on. To be perfectly frank, that's one of the reasons he's a farm dog and not a trial dog. He won't go to the side I send him.

 

I've found that now that I'm running in open, I'm usually sending the way everyone else does. Back when I was running in novice, I was often the one who sent the "wrong" way.

 

All that said, there are times when you need to listen to the dog's preference -- if yours isn't strong and the dog knows what he's doing, give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Belleview]

Kristi-

 

If your dog always sets up to go the same way, it's likely that side has become his habit. For all the good reasons folks have pointed out, there are always going to be advantages to one side over the other, and those likely differ for different dogs given varying sets of strengths and weaknesses, adding in the obvious draws and the dynamic at the top. Not all dogs make the right choices about which side is best for them!

 

Among my own trial dogs, I have one who will always set up to go left. He is a poor right side outrunner, as he is nearly always lean & flat on the right. I know his weakness and I rarely send him right, even if everyone else goes right.

 

Another of my dogs will always set up to go right. He is an equal outrunner either way, running wide & deep, but tends to stop short if there is much set out activity. I send him whichever way he will watch the set out less. I don't avoid sending him the way he'll lose sight of the sheep, I choose it.

 

My most experienced dog will run either way and doesn't have a habitual preference of a side to set up on. She is the one I will most likely allow to choose her side. However, if I note the sheep are leaving the top as the dog approaches, or there is a clear draw to one side, I will always choose to send to the side that she will be correct stopping a bit short as I know she tends to slice when she has to over run to properly cover.

 

If your dogs are good natural outrunners, you are off to a great start. A great outrunner will likely do well sent to either side. Play around with it to learn any holes that you need to manage. The better you know your dogs' strengths and weaknesses, and the more you watch other good handlers' runs, the easier it will be to choose which side will suit your dogs.

[airbear]

Thank you very much for all the suggestions! I think you are right - he definitely prefers the come-bye side for his outrun. The few times that he's crossed have been at my feet, not up field (bugger ran right over my feet at our 2nd trial). I can't say that I didn't contribute to it as I am sure I am sure I am not projecting a beacon of confidence whilst standing at the post.

 

Will work on sending on either side, as you're right - rarely are all things equal. I find handling this dog to be fascinating, producing a kind of rush of admiration that my experience in other dog sports just can't replicate. I have this pipedream of moving to a farm and running a small sheep dairy but, er, right now I have to be content with our weekly visits to the farm.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

When I was in Open Ranch Rick would go both ways, almost impeccably. I'd go the easy way the first day, then go the other way the second time around just for the heck of it. I never really got a feel for why one way was better than the other because Rick never, ever failed me on the OLF.

 

"The Greatest American Hero", where the guy finds a suit with super powers but there's no instruction manual? That's kind of like how I feel with Lou. "Hey, what does this whistle do? OK, that's a grip whistle. Good to know."

OK, now that's funny. Now I'll be humming, "Believe it or not, I'm walking on air . . ." when I'm out working Cord. Sometimes he's a bit of a mystery - it's hard to tell whether a) I screwed up the whistle he's gone dyslexic on me again or c) he's just ignoring me. Fortunately Jack gave me some tools to make sure all of the above matters not at all. I just have to do my homework now.

 

Cord isn't allowed to "pick sides" in his work here. He generally knows where the sheep are but sometimes I know and he doesn't (as in, my landlord's mom called and informed me they are across the road from her!). Even on the property there are several blind outruns. Often I can see the sheep from the porch, especially in the winter, but certainly he can't. If they are in the very back field, and I send him to the right and if he crosses, he'll be off to Mrs. Lockhard's a mile away, then he'll loop all around that 200 acre field, then back to our place, and meanwhile I've gotten Ben and got those darn sheep up without him.

 

So since moving here I've spent a lot of time considering the "right" way and "wrong" way to send a dog and it makes me look at trial fields in a whole new light. Sure, Cord can run out far for sheep, but how will I prepare him to handle gulleys, tree lines, and other visual hindrances? I can set that stuff up here and it will be fun to learn together.

[airbear]

Hi all,

 

Thanks for all the replies and advice. Just an update - at last weekend's trial, my dog indicated that he would like to be sent away on the Saturday, and I complied. This is the first time that he has ever asked to be sent on that side, so he must have seen something at the top that indicated that he should go that way. It was a dog-leg fetch to the right, though of course he didn't know that - must have been something about the way the sheep were set.

 

On Sunday, he indicated that a come bye would be more appropriate, so that's the way I sent him. This time, it was a dog-leg fetch to the left. Both of his outruns were quite nice, and he lifted just fine. We won't talk about some of the other aspects of his Sunday run, but on Saturday, except for an absolutely horrendous fetch, he did very well. His cross-drive was particularly pleasing to me, as that's our weakest bit right now, and his shed and pen were quite acceptable. It's also the first time that we finished a course so I was over the moon. My expectations are lower than most.

 

There didn't seem to be a preference amongst handlers. About half sent one way, half the other. Some dogs, on their away, headed to the exhaust pen which was behind the post and to the right. Some who sent on a come bye had a cross when the dog lost sight of the sheep on a little dip. Some made it look altogether too easy.

[juliepoudrier]

Congrats on finishing the course and doing it in pretty good style! There are still times when I walk to the post and my only goal is to get the sheep to my feet. If that's accomplished, then I worry about the rest.

 

J.

[airbear]

Thanks! I should mention that my second goal, namely, not falling off the bale of hay at the post, also was met!