kelpiegirl Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 hey folks: Okay, those of you who were hurt rather badly by a sheep, not by accident, but on purpose (the sheep decided to nail you). How have you felt getting back in with the sheep? That video of the sheep/aussie yest that we saw, when the black faced sheep squared up at the aussie gave me, well, a bit of a chill.... I am really really ambivalent at this point about going in with sheep- at least anything other than very sweet sheep. What do you all recommend? Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 I have been hit by rams and sheep - most of the time only resulting in bruises, but one time I ended up with a large head laceration when a cornered ewe threw me backwards into a cinderblock in the barn. Sheep are animals. I've tried to explain this before when people (not you, Julie) talk about getting a few sheep for their dog to have "fun" with. They (sheep) don't view herding as "fun." Given this, don't read too much into the fact that the sheep "meant to hurt you." Instead, I think you need to have a healthy respect for sheep and be aware that given the right/wrong circumstances (e.g., mamas with babies, sheep feel cornered, dog pressuring sheep too much, etc.), they may act in ways that are unpredictable (especially rams). This is part of "the game." A good dog will move sheep in a preditable manner, and will anticipate and minimize problems. Of course, "mean" rams are a liability and, unless there's some unusual reason for holding on to them, should be culled. BTW, sheep will test/challenge dogs at times, especially heavier breeds (that's what this sheep was doing). This is generally not a problem and (sometimes) is a time I ask my dogs to grip (or when I will help a younger, inexperienced dog). As you get more experienced reading sheep, you'll have a better understanding of what their behaviors mean and how to react. This takes time (often years), but all of us have gone through it. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Kim has said it all very nicely. If I remember correctly, it was a ram that nailed you? If so, I believe I said in that earlier thread that I would insist that the ram not be included in the group you work. It's generally not appropriate to use a ram for starting new handlers (if for no other reason than that when working with a young dog you might accidentally find yourself between the ram and the ewes, and that is generally a recipe for disaster). J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted May 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Hi Kim: Just a few qualifiers- I have taken care of, and grew up with livestock- everything from goats to dairy bulls. I have a pretty good ability to read them- especially the hidden nuances in sneak-up nailing The dog who was on the sheep is a novice. She wasn't overly worrying them. She is not what I would consider a loose canon. What I believe happened is that in my attempt to get the sheep off the fence (they were near my friend), and my dog was behind them/on my side of them, the sheep took out his ticked-ness on me. Now, this sheep HAD a place to go. He was not cornered. All he had to do was walk out from the fence. He chose to stand his ground, and come at me from an angle- he actually lowered his head, backed up and then went ahead. He did have options. I know what it is like to be kicked, bit, thrown, stomped, you name it. Have worked with idiot stallions, goats on steroids, everything. I always was prepared, and protected myself. I have never seen a person purposely rammed by the sheep when working the dogs (and I have seen some ROUGH handling by the dogs on the stock). I have seen dogs challenged/gone after. I guess I don't have the lightening reflexes they have But, in the end, I have a very enlightened view of sheep- and I still don't know if I can do it again. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 He chose to stand his ground, and come at me from an angle- he actually lowered his head, backed up and then went ahead. He did have options.The key word here is "he." As experienced as you are with livestock, you then should have anticipated that a RAM will hit people at times. This is the nature of rams. Even "good" rams can/will hit you out of the blue. I wasn't implying that your dog was worrying the sheep but was trying to illustrate the range of circumstances where normal/"nice" sheep will hit people. BTW,99% of the time my dog would have seen that the ram was going to go after me and would have gripped. Most of the time, things go smoothly. I've only been hurt a few times in over 10 years of having sheep, with novice and now experienced dogs . . . Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted May 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Hi Kim: I didn't know this was a "he" sheep Can't see the plumbing through all that wool. As for my dog- heck, I was just glad, given that she is a complete newbie on sheep that seeing me get knocked down didn't freak her out (she is not the most brave with people dog). As it was, she was fine- and being a nut, I was more worried that she was okay than me. And, fwiw, I don't want my dog to get challenged on her third time on sheep.... Now, if she was an experienced dog, yes, I would expect her to hit the sheep. Lots of would-of, could-of, should-of and ifs. Still doesn't help my mind set- guess it will just take time... Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 And, fwiw, I don't want my dog to get challenged on her third time on sheep.... Yes, this was my point about *sometimes* needing to help your young dog. It's perfectly appropriate, when a sheep challenges your dog, to "back it up." It's also wise to exclude such sheep from the group you start your dog on so, as Julie suggests, you need to talk with your friend (or find another trainer). (she is not the most brave with people dog).This is one of the interesting things about working dogs - their personality "off stock" is not necessarily indicative of their work "with stock." BUT sometimes, as they gain confidence in their work, this transfers to their off stock relationships - pretty neat! Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Julie, I keep editing my messages because there are so many nuances. I think the key is having an experienced person there to give you a hand . . Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted May 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 hi kim: I know Anyway, the reason I wanted her on sheep is because she is such a different, confident dog on them. I guess I am going to just sit this out a bit- have to anyway.... Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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