Angus in MO Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 I'm new to BC's having just acquired my first this past fall as a pup and I'm totally thrilled with him. He's now a little over 5 months old and I've taken him with me to chore everyday for the last couple of months, mainly on a lead but the last couple of weeks I've let him drag his lead behind him on the ground (just around the yearlying bull & heifer calves which are pretty much unexcitable at this point, I'm not ready to try the cows yet and don't think he would be either for quite a while). My question is this--the last 2 evenings "Booger" has singled off 1 calf and headed him to the other side of a 50 acre lot, how do I get him to not "single off"? For the most part I'm quite happy with how he listens to my directions but when he singles out a calf, he acts like that one is his and he won't come off until he's driven it over the hill. I don't yell at him, I've heard that BC's aren't usually wrong, it's their owners that don't know how to train them that is the problem, so I need to figure out how to help him correct this. Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks Angus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted January 21, 2003 Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 Hey Angus - First off, most pups are too young at 5 months to go onto cattle - I like 'em to be physically well enough off they can take complete care of themselves...and can do more than burn brain cells...thinking, for example... Singling can be simply a puppy thing he might grow out of...if he still does it in a couple months, after you keep him put up for awhile, then I'd worry about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus in MO Posted January 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2003 by "keeping him put up" do you mean keep him totally away from livestock? I don't have access to any animals other than cattle. My pup may kill me if I refuse to let him go with me to do chores. As of right now he is allowed free time within sight of cattle but won't bother them unless I say it's okay, I'm sort of afraid if I don't let him go with me now, he may have to lose his freetime. Is this going to be a problem for him to only have the short command learning sessions with me only and no livestock with no free time at all? thanks Angus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hey Angus - "Putting him up" means, to me, just not letting him "work" the stock...whether by direction or "freelancing" (working on his own without DIRECT intervention/control by yourself)... And certainly don't let him race along a fence "chasing" stock... Some pups are ok to start training at this age, and there are some signs - tail down, ability to take corrections without sulking/turning off, etc. Going with you to do chores is, I think, not a bad thing, I do take my young ones with me at times, but mostly they only see stock when it is training time...and I completely control the situation...young ones can develop bad habits right quick - like the singling... Do you ahve a smaller area for training him than the 50 acres? I just built an arena shaped pen that's 150' X 250' and that's working really well to keep some control on young dogs without me having to chase them or use an older dog to help control the situation... There are a bunch of folks in Missouri who have dogs - can you make contact with someone and get some direct help? In a more controlled situation, when a dog singles, I usually just charge the little darling until I get his attention and pressure him to go back and pick up the others - taking him off the single by cutting him off, using a horse whip (on the ground, not the dog) to block him... If your dogs driving away rather than fetching, you've got a different problem, you've got to get in front of the stock and cut him off if he won't listen - either a smaller pen or a 4 wheeler... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus in MO Posted January 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 my pup seems to do really well in the lot (approximately 125 x 175) and I'm completely pleased with his actions and his seeming ability to take direction from me. His singling problem comes when the yearlings don't all come to the lot and I have to go get around a few stragglers. He rides the 4 wheeler with me to go get around them and as long as they stay in a "herd" he's got no problems that I can see, but when one lags behind or leisurely seperates from the bunch, then the singling problem arises. Also, I'm not at all certain of his true age, he's not registered and seems quite large compared to other BC's I've seen. He seems nearly as big as some of the mature females I've seen and I'm wondering if he might be older than what I was told when I got him. As for his actions, the only thing I can see that he is lacking is I know he's not completely matured in his control of his legs yet and he lacks total confidence like any young dog would. His tail stays down and just barely above the ground except when he nips a head (he hasn't figured out yet that to get the most effect he should nail the nose and not the middle of the forehead) but he is unafraid to try and the yearlings have been hand fed long enough now that sometimes they seem too gentle for help in training any dog, but I don't want them to "take" him either so I'm thinking this is good for his sake. Calving season will be starting soon and I won't let him around the cow herd this year but as soon as things settle down in late spring/early summer I plan on seeking out the help of a professional trainer. I've just been trying to get him used to being around livestock at this early age as sugested by a good meaning old timer who lives nearby. He's never had a BC professionally trained but can do some wonderful things with his BC's and as with many old timer's, he thinks if you can't do it yourself, you shouldn't be doin' it. Would you know of anyone that you would reccomend for the training help later this sping? I need to be thinking about that before too long. thanks for your help Angus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 "but when one lags behind or leisurely seperates from the bunch, then the singling problem arises.' Yep, not surprising in a young dog... I'm guessing he ends up focused on the straggler and forgets about the others? That's where you need to get him off the one and onto the group - it's a rule of stock work to "take the many to the few" anyway, so it's something you want him to learn - first you gotta get his attention, cracking the whip on the ground may help and with body positioning and "here, here" get him to "see" the others...then encourage him to pick them up and decide if simply taking the pressure off will allow the straggler to catch back up with the herd...or if you need to move the group to the straggler... As far as recommendations, it depends on where you are - you could give a call to the USBCHA Director for your area (go to the home of this page and follow the links to the USBCHA page) and ask them about cattledoggers... Your feeling on "friendly stock" is right on by the way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus in MO Posted January 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 thanks for your help, I guess I've read that "taking the many to the few" on here before but it didn't register "during the moment". I'll have to try and work on that as time goes on. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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