Lyndsey Posted December 7, 2002 Report Share Posted December 7, 2002 I've never trained a dog to herd, and I'm determined to do so. What books/videos does everyone recommend? Any advice? I've read Lessons from a Stockdog that was recommended by my current BC's breeder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted December 7, 2002 Report Share Posted December 7, 2002 My advice is to find a good trainer who will train both of you. Like dressage, it's not something you can learn from a book, although books and videos can help. -- Melanie, Solo the Red, and Superfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi44 Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 I second that. I've read several books, I have videos - and I'm still planning on finding a trainer to help with Blaze - In fact, if anyone knows of a good trainer near Ft. Wayne, Indiana, I'd be glad to know. Everyone I know of is at least 2 hours away from me (hard to get away that long/far). Without a clear idea of what you're trying to do, it's impossible to teach the dog - and no matter how clear and simple it sounds in a book, I'll guarantee that it gets really complicated really fast when you have a dog whipping through sheep at the speed of light (seems at least that fast). Been there, done that - and highly recommend a good trainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowsavy Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 I have several videos like all I could find and all of them has something that is helpful,But you and I both know that no one can or wants to teach you everything you need to know on any video. I have found out that the more times you watch one the more you learn. There is a sectet to it too. Look at what they do not all what they say. Sometimes I watch one 20 times before I really catch on to how he is getting these results. You also learn what not to do as well as what to do so the bad ones or good too. I joined a video club that handles Training tapes for Horses and Dogs and have watched all of them I could. I think it is like seventeen dollors for three tapes for four days. I don't have a trainer close to me that I know of and this was my only way to start. I don't think I would recomend anyone of them as the best just bits and peaces form all of them helped me a lot. I am on my 8th dog now and I have not done any trials, but they sure work stock good. I met one guy that trials and he let me come up and work my dogs while he watched. I was hoping to get something from him to my benifit. All he said when I asked him what was I doing wrong and what was I doing right was (boy you are a natural) and that was it. I drove 200 miles took off a day of work and got you are a natural. One day I am going back to find out a natural what. I even expected to pay him for some help, and even offered glad he didn't charge me. But if you are close to a trainer I would say that is your best bet,but if you are like me and have to do the best you can don't start till you have watched several videos several times I am still watching the ones I brought which is the ones that I got the most information from. Good luck and it can be done without a trainer but it is sure easer with one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowsavy Posted December 8, 2002 Report Share Posted December 8, 2002 Sorry just thought of something else. I found one video on horse training that really worked. It was completely different, and I am wondering if it applys for dogs to. This trainer states at the beganning that the horse does everything correct even when he is a baby. The rider or handler is the one that messes up his balilance and causes him to miss a lead or stumble, which make a lot so since. A border Collie is a natural hearder do we mess him up with our body langue?? I have paid attention to this and I know that just a slight move will confuse the dog. Is he doing it right and I am just not on his cue. does he know more about what the stock is going to do before I can catch it? I know when I start my pups on sheep they always get them to me without my help and really it seems faster than my trained dogs do with my help. Has anyone ever plondered this. I know you still need comands to place sheep where you need them and to shed but if you could get it in to the dogs head what you wanted would he do a better job without us? anyone have any comments on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted December 9, 2002 Report Share Posted December 9, 2002 Lyndsey, In answer to your question, the standard books that are most often recommended are Bruce Fogt's "Lessons from a Stockdog" and Vergil Holland's "Stockdogs: Progressive Training." Bruce's book is specifically about border collies, whereas Vergil's books is geared toward all herding breeds. There are other books out there that I have seen recommended, but I have not read them and so cannot comment on them. Geri Byrne at Border Collies in Action carries anumber of books ( www.bordercollies.com ) as does Francis Raley ( http://www.francisraley.com/ ). As for videos, one of my favorites is Derek Scrimgeour's "A Hill Shepherd Trains His Border Collies." Derek also has a book coming out in mid-December that I will probably buy. Others that I have heard are good are Rural Route Videos' "Starting Your Boder Collie on Cattle, Sheep, and Ducks" (I probably don't have th title exactly right, but if you go to the Rural Route website, you can find it). I haven't seen this video, nor have I seen the ones by Elvin Kopp, but folks seems to really like his videos as well. Border Collies in Action carries a number of these videos, and Francis Raley may as well. Like everyone else here has said, nothing beats the help of a good trainer, if you can find one. But reading books and watching videos is better than nothing, and you can get some good ideas from them, even if you do find a trainer to help you. Some good advice usually given by Bill Gary: You might want to go to the USBCHA website ( www.usbcha.com ) and find out who the directors are from your region. Contact them and they can help you find a trainer near you. They can also put you in touch with any regional handler's associations, through which you can find out about trials and clinics in your area. Attending either is a great way not only to learn but also to network! Good luck. J. [This message has been edited by juliepoudrier (edited 12-09-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted December 9, 2002 Report Share Posted December 9, 2002 I received the Starting Your Border Collie on Cattle, Sheep or Ducks tape for Christmas yesterday. It is very good, kind of a Bruce Fogt book training live. It is Excellent and easily understood. Covers more than actual training, but all extremely useful information. I agree that getting a trainer would help, but if that is just not possible....a person does what they can. Good Luck....dianne [This message has been edited by BDW (edited 12-09-2002).] [This message has been edited by BDW (edited 12-09-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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