Hanging on to Sheep

[Cowsavy]

One of my border collies will grab and hold on to sheep how do I stop this.

Here is the problem. In the small pens he does not grab or even bite the sheep. But when I go to a larger area to work him and he is out about a 100 yards and one breaks and runs he will try and turn it if it don't turn he will take hold and hang on he knows the release comand in the pen but at a distance he looses it what do I do here

[ikw]

Too far,too soon.

 

Never send a dog out if you can't stop their action. Keep working him at hand until he gets older and wiser and will realise he cannot get away with cheating.

Try out a very long rope if you have to send him out.

Another thing you could do if he's gripping because he knows not what else to do,once you send him for his outrun,start walking towards sheep. Your pressure on him should give him confidence and also will widen him out.

If sheep are splitting for him to grab one,that means he's working way too close.

Does he have a solid down command?

 

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Inci Willard

Clearville,PA

814-784-3414

ikw@pennswoods.net

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It's better to be silent and thought the fool,than to speak and remove all doubt.

[Cowsavy]

He has a solid down in the small pen but seems like in the big pen (100 x 60 ) he just loses it when the sheep breaks, He works well in the small pen will even load sheep in a tr. I thought he just needed time to adjust to the larger pen but seems he is not adjusting real fast. I don't do long outruns in the large pen or haven't but if they break by me he tries to turn them but if they stand and face him he will grab and hold in the small pen he is more careful and works them easy in the larger pen he is working too fast and too close I can back him out but right back in when the sheep speed up. One more thing I have 3 pups out of this liter when they work they can get real close to the sheep and don't disterb them I have seen them within 3 ft of them and the sheep just walk This dog excites the sheep as soon as he comes in the pen I can't see any difference in the three's working but seems Dan excites stock more and really works farther out and slower than the other two. I have really been paying attention to see if I could pin point why so far I haven't

[ikw]

Some dogs have a tendency to excite sheep,some calms them.

Best to keep him on a long line and step on it when sheep splits and let the sheep repack together on their own rather than using the dog to put the single back. Another word,until your dog matures little bit more,don't send him after a single.

 

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Inci Willard

Clearville,PA

814-784-3414

ikw@pennswoods.net

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It's better to be silent and thought the fool,than to speak and remove all doubt.

[Cowsavy]

Ikw, Does these dogs that excite the sheep usually change after they mature or is this something that I have to learn to deal with in my training. It seems to be a problem on this dog. I am sure others have had this problem too. Is there a cure or do I just have to wate and see. After I work the edge off him things do get better. It also seems to help if I take him on a spree through the pasture and let him just run before I work him. Don't know if this is the right thing to do or not but seems to help. Plus I get to work on his comands a little too without stock around. Mostly the stay back and the down and the that will do I don't do the directions unless I am on stock. He is not really a high energy dog he has lots of energy and working ability but is not what you would say hiper. He stays close to me and my horse when he is just running loose and pays attention He just has a seceret way of disterbing stock. That I am not smart enough to figer out

[Guest C Denise Wall]

It sounds like your dog is worried that sheep will get away in the bigger area (which is a good concern in moderation), but doesn't react properly when they try to. Think of it like this - he is thinking right, he's just doing too much, probably because he's tense and worried. His tension probably makes the sheep more unsettled and likely to break, increasing his tension more. They feel it whether you see his actions as different from the others or not.

 

If he is trying to stop them, and it sounds like he is, don't cure him of that, just help him learn how to do it right. Stopping him from trying, or correcting him too harshly for gripping when one breaks may not teach him what you want. It could teach him not to try to work a single or to not try to stop breaking sheep.

 

Maybe he doesn't know how to control himself and think when he's that excited. He needs to settle down and think about where he needs to be to stop them in order to gain confidence. One way you can work with him is to set the situation up so that the sheep will naturally break for something (grain, other sheep nearby or some other natural draw) and right as they start, send him to head them off. Keep him real close to you and don't let the stock get far at first to see how he handles it. If he does okay, let him the stock get farther and farther away before you let him head them. If you gradually increase the pressure he has to withstand before he is allowed to go, he should learn to handle it and should learn if he widens out to the right place they will stop and he doesn't need to do 'too much' to stop them. Take as much time as it takes to do it right. It is an important basic skill for him to have.

 

I've trained dogs like this. They usually do settle down over time but you can help him improve faster by targeting where he's having problems and slowly working through it using repetition and gradually increasing difficulty. Your idea of getting some of the edge off is also a good one. They do better when they don't start as much trouble to have to deal with.

 

JMHO

 

Denise

 

[This message has been edited by C Denise Wall (edited 12-01-2002).]