Sam

[hsnrs]

Thanks everyone who offered help with my Aussie Sam. We are working almost every morning and he is getting much better. He still tries to split and grip but I am much more proactive with him. Try not to let him work til he behaves. Also it was suggested that we work him til he is tired and then work some more to burn off energy. That is working so well. He even quits and walks off with me when we are done with "that'll do" and he comes. N

[Debbie Meier]

Good to hear you and Sam are making progress. Something to think about when you are ready to tackle your next trial with him, be sure to be as proactive at the trial as you are at home, your first trial or two may be more to teach him that you are not going to let him run his own program, if you walk into the arena or out on the field and just throw him the reins he will probably revert back to the behaivors that have been allowed in that environment previously that got you the "Thank You". So, if you can walk away with a sense of gaining in your control of your dog you have succeeded, build from there, if the wheels fall off look for little gains not whether or not you titled or placed high. A way to better prepare for this would be to go to as many different places as you can to work, stay on your proactive track and give Sam a chance to understand that you are now expecting a new way of behaiving around livestock regardless if it is at home or in public, if you have working opportunities to expose him to that are not trials use them to judge whether or not he is ready for the trial, if you can't get him to change his mind or influence his decisions prior to the trial in training or practice your going to be at his mercy at the trail.

 

Take your time and be patient, it's takes way longer to change a habit then it does to create it. Something I try to remember when I am retraining a dog, each time I fail at derailing the old behaivor means that I have to succeed multiple times more, goes back to the old "Three Steps forward, two steps back" adage.

 

Deb

[hsnrs]

Thanks Deb. Two steps backward today. He gripped lots of times and got away from me to split. He also wasn't walking behind like the day before. He likes to try to go to the heads; then the sheep divide and the chase is on. We are going to a Celtic Games demo tomorrow. The clinic lady who invited me with 2 of my dogs said to leave him home as folks don't like to see gripping. I totally agree but was hoping she would let us come to see what is going on (to help me and Sam). Also had hopes of working in a new arena with new sheep. Will try to apply what the other dogs learn to him when we get home for the next lessons. We are definitely a work in progress and we do try to be patient. He is worth the effort. At least he did walk off with me when done. Got to build on the successes and not focus on the bad. N

[Debbie Meier]

Next time you work him watch for the switch to flip, watch for the very first indication he gives that he is going to slice in to take his grip, it might be a shoulder drop, you might be able to read a tension or excitement rise. By watching for that little subtle change you have a change of correcting him before his teeth take him to the sheep. Putting him on a light cord will help you slow it down, give him a little rope and see what he does with it, if he begins to go to the stock, stop him, see if he opts to flank, follow along letting him flank, when he starts to slice again stop him, don't be afraid to slow him down to a walk. We used to try to correct the dog for gripping, but at that point we are way to late, the dog was wrong and should have been corrected when he stopped flanking and started a line toward the sheep. The only time a dog should be applying a bite is when the stock refuses to yield and move off, if the dog flys in and just grips he is learning to bully his way in and he will not be able to control the choas he created causing excitement and adreneline, I have a theory that some dogs become adreneline junkies, once they learn that it's fun they can't wait to do it, not only thinking they are right but wanting the fix. At that point they have also gone past being useful as a herding dog but are now hunting, testing and beginning the process of taking the prey down for the kill. You can't train an excited dog, so going back to plain not allowing him to get excited may be the key, with our cattle dogs I find that when they get excited and stop thinking their teeth take them straight to the sheep, so I have to teach them alot of self control and keep them from getting excited until the prove they can make the right decisions under excited conditions. In some cases my correction is to get them to come back to earth and think as opposed to correcting them for not taking a stop or an incorrect flank.

 

Another thing that really helped us understand when the dog was not flanking anymore was looking at the two basic manuvers as a circle or a line, the flank is a circle around the stock, your drive or fetch is a line in the direction of the stock creating forward motion with the stock, anything inbetween is either a slice or going off contact. If you draw it out on paper you will see that if your dog spirals in toward the stock that he is slicing, the natural progression if left unchecked is to spiral in tighter and tighter until something blows, when it does the dog usually grips, where did the flank go wrong, way out when he dropped his shoulder and began the spiral or slice. This is basic basic, as you being to see where the change occures you can tell if the dog properly adjusted for the stock, if the stock moves you look for the adjustment the dog made, did that adjustment allow the dog to continue his flank, or did it facilitate a slice? If you can see it in the very beginning it gives you a chance to understand what the dogs intentions are and correct the dog at that exact time when he goes off tract, or atleast way before the grip every happens. It also helps you when you are trying to catch a dog early when he stops driving to run to the head, some will either switch to a flank or slice to get there, but they will no longer be committed to engaging the sheep to facilitate the drive. It's one thing to wear in and effort to maintain a line, it's quite different to flank back and forth out of excitement or because they have been taught to just run back and forth in a manic fashion that has nothing to do with maintaining control over the stock.

 

Once your dog understands that he is only allowed to put enough pressure on the stock to hold it grouped together while he flanks, or just enough pressure on the stock to keep it moving forward you will be able to trust him, it's the inconsistent pressure application that makes the dog unpredictable jumping from off contact to on contact, to too much contact then too little contact, makes sheep very nervous and harder to control. Also, many people don't think about it, but if the stock begins to stress and get frantic the dog has to release pressure, more pressure will just cause an uncontrolled explosion.

 

Sorry to go on so long, hopefully someone will get something out of my ramblings.

 

Deb

[hsnrs]

Makes sense to try and see what is happening just before the grip. The sheep do get nervous and separate from the group. Or sometimes they split in the middle (we only have 4). The beginning of our practice might be what is exciting him too. We need to change the routine so he doesn't anticipate the work and get to that state in the first place. Also will try to kick him out from the beginning. At the games this weekend it was suggested that we do that with all our dogs. The instructor worked our dog and she did fine for her. Not the same for me. We need to put lots more pressure on them to get this. We took the day off today so maybe we all needed to step back and start anew tomorrow. N