Dog Fights

[LazyGRanch]

I'm not sure where else to go to post this question, so I hope it's OK that I post it here.

I have a client who has a goldendoodle and a 50 lb (give or take) dog that looks something like a small newfoundland (black, thick straight coat, squared head, drop ears, etc). I don't have too much info so bear with me here.

If I remember correctly, the couple got the goldendoodle as a puppy (or maybe a very, very young adult) and is a few years old now (I would say between 3-4 years). She is a very submissive type (pawing, rolling, peeing, squinting her eyes at you and tucking her tail, etc). The only form of "aggression" she's shown is very loud, talkative growly noises that *I* wouldn't even consider growling when she meets a new person. When she met me, she could hardly contain her excitement and was doing this growly noise while pawing in my direction, squinting her eyes, etc. I met her about a year and a half ago and she has become more submissive since, and has taken to more submissive peeing. The growly noises seemed to concern the owners, and they worried it was "real" growling and tried to suppress it. She doesn't do it as often, but it still happens.

The other dog is outgoing, bright, friendly but not "in your face friendly" and willing to try new things. She was adopted out of a rescue a few years back as an adult and seems like the type of dog who is used to "fending for herself" (she never had a problem with problem solving, and has found various ways to get herself in trouble).

When I first met these two, they were working with a behaviorist because the two dogs were apparently having some snark fests, mainly over things like toys. Nothing major but enough to hire this behaviorist and learn how to get their respect, make it known that fighting and snarking wasn't tolerated, etc. We've boarded the dogs together several times and never have I or anyone else working the kennel noticed any tension between the two. The husband died in may, and the goldendoodle ("his" dog) definetely had a heck of a time adjusted. This is where the extra submissive/clingy behavior started. The pawing became a fullblown rearing up and clawing whoever whenever she was anxious, nervous, etc. She would put on a hell of a show whenever she dropped the dogs off, but seemed calm and placid the whole time during her stay.

This morning we got a call from the owner who was extremely shaken up. Apparently the two dogs (both spayed females) got into a horrendous fight. The owner was able to break it up, but got bitten badly enough to require stitches (I think stitches in her arm, but I'm not sure). The black dog had bitten the goldendoodle bad under the armpit and hit an artery, which equaled a whole lot of bloodshed. The goldendoodle had to be stitched up, hospitalized, etc. I'm not sure if there was any damage to the black dog (I haven't talked to the owner except briefly this afternoon). When I *did* talk to her, she said the behaviorist was going to take the black dog and work with her a bit to see what could be done.

Now, I haven't made any suggestions to the owner yet, but if I were in her shoes I would be considering rehoming. I've seen first hand dog/dog fights, and they're loud, obnoxious and (for the most part) short lived and easily forgiven. Bitches seem to hold a grudge and the hate seems to grow with time. My breeder has female GSD's that have to be kept separate 24/7, one slip up could be literally deadly. (They even had to rearrange the dogs so the bitches weren't side by side, two of them got into it through the fence and one literally ripped the chin off the other female).

I'm not sure what to recommend, I'm not sure she knows what she wants to do. What would you guys recommend to someone you respect as a person and a dog owner?

[juliepoudrier]

What I would recommend would depend on what the owner was willing to do management-wise. Bitches (spayed or not) who don't get along aren't likely to suddenly start getting along, so really unless she wants to manage the situation (like not leaving them together out of her sight, being vigilant about watching for posturing or other first signs of an impending blow up so she can nip it in the bud, etc.), then it would make sense to rehome one dog for the happiness of all. But if she'd really like to keep both dogs, it can work. I have three here who do not get along (two especially). I don't leave them home alone together (they are crated where they can't look at each other directly) and I keep an eye on them pretty much at all times and stop any snarky behavior. That said, these two have been posturing, feinting, snarking for years and have *never* taken it to a full blown fight. Whether that's the result of my influence or just that they are happy keeping it at the snark level, I don't know. I do know that there's a state of constant tension around these two, and I'm sure they'd be happier if that tension weren't there, but I don't have the option of finding another home for one or the other, so we manage.

 

J.

[LazyGRanch]

What I would recommend would depend on what the owner was willing to do management-wise. Bitches (spayed or not) who don't get along aren't likely to suddenly start getting along, so really unless she wants to manage the situation (like not leaving them together out of her sight, being vigilant about watching for posturing or other first signs of an impending blow up so she can nip it in the bud, etc.), then it would make sense to rehome one dog for the happiness of all. But if she'd really like to keep both dogs, it can work. I have three here who do not get along (two especially). I don't leave them home alone together (they are crated where they can't look at each other directly) and I keep an eye on them pretty much at all times and stop any snarky behavior. That said, these two have been posturing, feinting, snarking for years and have *never* taken it to a full blown fight. Whether that's the result of my influence or just that they are happy keeping it at the snark level, I don't know. I do know that there's a state of constant tension around these two, and I'm sure they'd be happier if that tension weren't there, but I don't have the option of finding another home for one or the other, so we manage.

 

J.

 

 

Thanks for the ideas. Apparently the two got into it "with no warning", but a lot of time those ridiculously subtle signals are easily missed. She's no dog dummy, but I assume she wasn't watching them like hawks and perhaps missed signals. She's going to give it a week or two with the black dog at the behaviorists and see what the behaviorist thinks after working with her a bit. She's a good dog handler and a good owner, I would trust her with my dogs (and that's saying a lot!) I would worry about a door not getting latched, gates accidently being left open, etc. I am hoping for the best.