Can my corrections turn him off?

[Angie H]

I am working on using pressure/release and less chatting while training with Binx and he has been responding to it really well, especially when it comes to waiting for permission to go through each gate and things like that. But he still tries to pull me to the pen.

 

He does great with loose leash walking - on the street or in a neighborhood, a store, etc., but when it comes to sheep - it's like he forgets that he's ever been on a leash - well, not quite that bad, but he does pull.

 

Also, I have been correcting him if he barks from his crate when I am in the field or if another dog is working and he is waiting his turn. Again, he knows he is not permitted to bark while in his crate...until there are sheep present

He also gets excited and wants to pull and bark if he can see another dog working (for example, if I am watching a more experienced handler/dog team in the bigger field) - I put him in a down and stepped on his leash when he did this - should I have just put him away where he couldn't see instead?

 

Since he is just starting out and he's still young; I don't want to inadvertently give him the wrong message - I don't want him to think the sheep are bad or that he is being corrected for looking at them, yet I do need to correct the behavior so that I don't end up with a wild child every time he sees sheep! I just want to make sure I don't "turn him off" either. He is pretty keen, but he also corrects very easily (except when we're walking to sheep )

 

So I'm wondering what the majority of you think about correcting him for these behaviors this early in the game. Is it a good thing or should I be letting things go until he is more mature and further along in his training? We are still in the round pen...he is 7 months old and has probably been on sheep about 4 or 5 times so far.

 

I guess I'm figuring it's better to nip it in the bud now, before he makes a habit of the behaviors, but is that the right thinking at this stage? I have been reading so much about being careful not to create a mechanical dog....But he needs to understand that I am the one ALLOWING him the sheep, right?

 

[juliepoudrier]

In my opinion, if your corrections aren't having much affect on him when he's excited watching another dog work, then I'd just put him up where he can see the action rather than continue to nag or escalate the corrections.

 

J.

[Angie H]

In my opinion, if your corrections aren't having much affect on him when he's excited watching another dog work, then I'd just put him up where he can see the action rather than continue to nag or escalate the corrections.

 

J.

 

Thanks.

 

My instructor has pointed out that I tend to "nag" when trying to correct his leash pulling too, which is what has led me to focus on using pressure/release.

 

I thought I was a pretty decent dog trainer until I entered the herding world - always something to learn - that's what keeps things interesting

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

My thought is, if he's not solid on sheep yet, then keep him away from sheep when working. You'll know when he's ready to develop patience watching another dog work, when you can walk him into the field, out and around the sheep without a leash. It's all the same attitude, so you can start correcting the MY SHEEP idea while on sheep. Then you can also correct it off sheep and the dog understands it's the same thing.

 

With that said, I always have pretty hot-headed dogs and this is a very weak spot for us. But, notably, Ted (for instance) still has problems with the occasional attempt to freelance as well as cheerleading.

 

But the short answer is yes, it's my understanding from experienced clinicians that if your dog isn't fully "turned on" yet (ie, you have to be cautious with turning him off while working), that correcting him for cheerleading could confuse him. Besides, it's really annoying to people who have to watch the "nagging" happen.

[PSmitty]

I'm a newbie, but I agree with the others. At this stage, too many corrections could or could not turn him off, but why take a chance? If you can put him up where he doesn't see the other dogs or sheep, that's what I'd do until later on. Then you will have a better understanding of how much correction he can take without affecting his desire to work.

 

As for the loose leash walking, I'm inclined to not press it too much, either. At this point you want him to be enthusiastic, and I wouldn't worry too much if he's pulling (well, you know, as long as he's not pulling you off your feet or anything!). I would work on it later, though, again, as you see what kind of corrections he takes and how he reacts to them.

 

Before starting lessons with my current trainer, I took Jack to someone else. Now, he had seen sheep once before (but not with this lady), and showed some decent stuff (circling, changing directions, staying off pretty good, no gripping). Before this trainer would let him have his sheep, though, she made him walk around the round pen (for what seemed like forever!), trying for a loose lead walk. Any time poor Jack would want to get to the sheep, she'd jerk him nearly off his feet with the lead. Kind of like, "there they are? do you want them? well, too bad!", then yank. I was totally turned off by this, not seeing a big need for loose lead obedience type walking when it was a young dog's second time on sheep.

 

Needless to say, once he did get released to the sheep, he showed none of the good stuff he'd done his first time out. I totally chalk it up to the jerking and correcting he went through (and getting smacked first thing with a paddle didn't help). We obviously didn't go back there, and I love how my currrent trainer handled it. When we first started training with her, she didn't enforce or ask for a loose lead. She let him go out there enthusiastic and happy. As our lessons progressed, she began letting him know it wasn't appropriate to pull on the lead as they headed out for the sheep. If he pulled, she said "no", he got a leash correction and she just stopped walking. It took no time at all before he realized that she (and later me, when I started working him) wasn't going to put it with it, and he'd better walk nicely or no sheep. But what's important, is that she did it at the right time for the dog.

[Angie H]

PSmitty - Thank you for sharing that experience with me -

 

I know someone that had a similar experience and did not know better with her first dog and now her first dog is a mess on sheep and doesn't even trial. She has since become better educated and obviously does not use that trainer anymore.

 

The way your trainer allowed your dog some freedom in the beginning and then later let him know what was not appropriate...that makes perfect sense.

 

Initially, I was thinking, why even let the behavior start - then you have to work harder to undo it?! But things are very different in the working world of training a good dog. It is starting to click for me, but it is taking me some time to change the way I think about training with my dog.

 

Thanks again - this helps!