WANTED: IDEA'S, ADVISE, OPINIONS

[mbernard2424]

The best thing I did to free Twist up was work cattle--since they don't bunch together, the dog is forced to be more free flanking and rely less on eye for control. A large group of sheep would have a similar, though less pronounced, effect.

 

That's interesting Julie. I started Gel on goats and worked goats for about a year before I got sheep. It wasn't until he had been on sheep for a while before he started to develop eye and get sticky. Now I have to watch his outruns to the right because his eye tends to draw him in on that side. I wonder if I had started out with sheep vs. goats if the eye would have ended up being a problem.

[Ali C]

Got a boy that has alot of eye, just getting him started, and havent ever dealt with a dog with so much eye before. Pro's, cons? It appears to give the illusion that the dog has pressence and power. But not quite sure what we have to work with yet.

 

As Mark said it's difficult to know without seeing the dog. I have 2 dogs with quite a lot of eye, but they have very different working styles.

 

One was never sticky on a flank-walkup command, never hesitated to walk right in, and was never at all "clappy"- in fact she prefers to stand quite often. Her eye was really only a training "issue" on the the lift. I was shown how to help her with that by changing the balance point once she was well on her way. This kept her from anticipating the balance point too early and letting her eye pull her in. It worked wonders, and didn't take very long. Now if I see her thinking about it, I can give her another flank and she continues right on. From time to time I do a session of the above mentioned work, just to remind her. Another thing that my instructor had us do was work a big flock (30+)- this limited the getting locked in mode. This dog is indeed a dog with power and pressence. I like her a lot and once she is a fully experienced dog, her eye is going to be a pro, IMO.

 

The 2nd dog naturally has a lot of eye, big fast flanks, and is clappy. She is much more cautious of the sheep's bubble than the above mentioned dog. She has plenty of power, but she does not like to make a mess. She is the fastest, most responsive dog I've seen. Because she's so fast to respond, I took the "there" right out. Once stopped, this young dog was more work to get back up than the above dog. Interestingly, this dog never gets 'sucked in' by her eye, (like the above dog) but will get quite careful. Lifts are never a problem for her. She's a natural outrunner and at home can go an honest 350 yards and have a perfect O/L and quick fetch, even on heavy, grazing sheep. She is only 28 months and is only going in the right direction. She has not gotten more eye as she's matured. She is freeing up a little, and I am getting better at finding things to do with her to help her work out of her comfort zone. She is now much less clappy, and I am starting to be able to toot my there/walk up combo whistle, and not have her drop into a down on the there. Also, from a stop, she is much quicker to walk up. I think with this dog, her intense eye was in some part due to immaturity/lack of confidence, so by just working her and HELPING her, not fussing at her, she is gaining confidence, thus loosening up on the eye.

 

As far as liking a dog that's fast and having to slow it down, or having a slow dog and speeding it up, it would totally depend on why each was happening. Some dogs are slow until they're very confident- they're cautious, maybe perfectionists- don't want to be wrong types. I don't mind that. There's something to be said for using one's brain before his legs and teeth. However I don't like mopey, and there's a big difference. I also think it's hard to bring back the "get up" in a dog that someone has stomped out of him. I don't enjoy that either. Along with my girls with eye, I have 2 dogs that are tighter, faster, boring type workers- walk right on thru the middle of a group in a drive if you wanted them to. (picture parting the sea LOL) I've been told this type will "go far" because they will drive and drive and drive, and because you can "put" them anywhere and they won't fight you on that anywhere. I enjoy having both types to work and train. But when thinking on it, I seem to grab the "eyeballs" for real work. Only personal preference. I think I like more eye than a lot of people.

 

Ali