unexpected shedding work

[Guest urbana]

Hello, I have a nice female bc who is 20months old and doing P/N trial level work at home.

 

I was wondering if this is a problem and how to help her deal with it without making her think shedding is wrong:

 

Twice now I have a single sheep hang 6-10 feet back from the bunch of 10-20. The first time I asked her to flank behind it and instead she flanked between that sheep and the flock and brought me the single. I realized I set it up for such and effect, my body position and everything.

 

The second time this happened (actually the next day) I asked her to flank the whole flock (trying to make sure I was clear, but she again did the same thing again (very nicely with out worying the sheep).

 

both times after the sheep was brought to me (only moved 4-8 feet) I lied her down and pushed the sheep back to the group myself.

 

Thanks for your comments in advance!

[Guest ellen]

Oh good faults.

I have thought a lot about your question.

You were right not to correct your young dog. Though you don't want her to be leaving sheep, you do want her to be a good, confident shedding dog someday.

I can't quite picture how the dog is cutting off the lagging sheep and bringing it to you while it is fetching, without bringing it through the other sheep? Is this occurring during driving? Does the dog head the lagging sheep and bring it back to you?

 

Now, while I seem to be side-stepping the 'shedding' question, if the cause for her being in such a position as a shed becomes available is due to her not putting enough pressure on sheep to keep them together, then the first thing to do is to make sure she will put the correct amount of pressure on the sheep.

 

I will assume she is cutting one off while driving. In order to do this the dog must not really be "driving." but rather 'following' sheep and waiting for an opportunity to get around to the head. This is to be expected as the dog is developing an understanding of driving. If this is the case I would spend a lot of time doing two things. 1) I would walk with the dog, holding it with my voice from heading while asking it to push directly into the sheep. And 2) doing a lot of 1/2 flanks while walking with the dog. Drive. 1/2 flank. Walk up, drive for awhile. Inside flank. Drive, 1/2 flank all the while encourage the dog to walk directly into the back of the sheep from the point at the end of the flank.

You must mix this up this training with gathering work and full flanks if you don't want to take major steps backward in that part of your training and work. Too many 1/2 flanks without full flanks and the dog will start to think you want her to stop short. etc.

While doing these exercises make sure the flanks have a nice round shape and that the dog is maintaining control at all points. The dog should start to 'feel the line' and push ahead without worrying about losing control of the sheep. (balancing them on the tip of her nose) As the dog begins to gain confidence driving you with you at her side or just behind her you can start dropping back and let her drive them further away. At the point you feel that she wants to swing around and bring them back to you you can begin walking forward with her again. You want her to maintain a direct and positive contact with the sheep. Don't be in too much of a rush for distance. Don't worry about 'trial' drives. They will all the sudden seem to evolve on their own as she develops confidence and has lots of practice with the right moves.

Now on the shedding question. If she is turning on a single and wearing it with confidence I would not hesitate to formally school the shed so long as you have sheep that will seperate easily and won't fight the dog, and don't cling to your knees. There are many ways of teaching the shed the important point is that you can, yourself, get the sheep apart easily, while your dog is stopped on the opposite side, and that you can get the dog to come to you without the two groups trying to get back together. Also you need enough sheep--no fewer than a dozen, preferrably more. I do recommend Alasdair MacRae's Shedding DVD/Video, which has a good section on teaching the early stages of shedding. You can get it from Geri Byrne 530-664-5871.

[Guest urbana]

I thank you for your comments! I was thinking more about how to stop her from leaving sheep behind, and also not understanding my commands, than thinking about the fact she might not really driving.

 

There is a bit of a draw in the field, in which when she over flanked a bit while I was walking about 20 ft off by her side, the sheep (same one all the time I figured out) decides to stop and see if it will be left. Another young dog that works these sheep has let it get away before. Side point, but I thought I would set up the situation a bit better.

 

Your comments made me look at her a bit more, and though we have been doing the items that you suggested (1/2 flanks and full flanks and off balance flanks), when I looked at what she was doing a bit more closely, she isn't really confident in driving herself without commands to hold her where I want her. I have stepped back a bit to see if she will engage a bit more. Though I now think it is time to get some one with more experience to see her work, because I might be thinking she is working really well, and she might just be listening well.

 

Luckily the sheep split very easily and are not hard to push. Yet they are not very flighty either. I really like this set (minus the "smart" one).