Guest Smokinjbc Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Before you go ..... Amanda, Can you give suggestions on helping a dog learn to drive when that dog is very anxious about giving up the head? Also, part of the same problem- a dog that is more likely to flank, flank, flank to the balance point and maintain distance but is not as happy walking straight in on its stock? Is there any help for that, or is it a symptom of a greater disease ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heather Posted June 12, 2006 Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Amanda is now officially off duty, so this post belongs to Ellen. Have at it, Ellen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Heather Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ellen Posted June 15, 2006 Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Hello Smokinjbc, I am quivering in my boots. Following Amanda is a bit intimidating and I do feel honored to be asked to host this forum for a little while. As for driving. Patience, patience. There are many border collies who fit into this catagory. This strong heading instinct is one of the traits that makes a border collie the dog that it is. When I confront a dog that is uncomfortable walking directly into its sheep, I ask myself if the dog is unhappy walking straight onto the sheep because he has a great feel for his sheep and is afraid they will bolt, or because he is afraid of the sheep themselves? The first is easier to overcome than the second unless the dog is particularly sulky or hard-headed. In either case I will do some work to get the dog more comfortable close to sheep. My interpretation of how a good driving dog perceives driving: The dog is 'at balance' to the drive line. With this assumption I try to help the dog find and hold this balance point. While I am able to get many dogs driving a little bit before they even know they are doing it I wait until I have really good foundations before formally teaching 'the drive'. Foundations: 1) I make sure I can stop the dog anywhere on the circle. I must be able to stop the dog before he gets 'to balance'. 2)He doesn't necessarily need to be 100% on his flanks, but when he is casting in a certain direction, hits balance and wants to come to his sheep I will ask him to continue on (not let him come to his sheep). So he must be able to understand his flanks well enough that he keeps moving past balance when he wants to come in. 3) When I am first working on the circle I put a word to hitting the balance point and walking in. I use "there". I would like the dog to start checking himself anywhere on the circle when he hears 'there'. I might have to follow it with a stop to get him to believe that I mean it, but before I try to start driving I want the dog to understand that 'there' means I want him to walk into the sheep at that point. When I have all this well in place I will take a large-ish group (10-30 sheep) and set them up so that the dog can be between the sheep and some draw (the barn, a holding pen, etc.). I will negotiate the dog to the pressure point however I can. Send to balance whatever. Say, 'there' 'walk up'. I will let the dog continue to fetch to me. When the sheep reach my feet and the dog wants to cast back to 'balance' I will not let him. I want him to be to push the sheep past my feet. I will use the training I have in place (above) and the draw for the sheep to help the dog in every way I can. I want to take away any opportunity for the dog to lose the sheep by doing what I ask, (if he did he would be able to tell me, 'see boss, I told you so. I knew that wouldn't work...'). The dog has to have faith that I know what I am talking about. At first it may be only that the dog gets the sheep past me before I let it cast. As the dog gains confidence and understanding I ask more. As the sheep pass and the dog gets parallel to me I will walk with the dog. Holding it with my voice and encouraging it. I recently started a young dog that I think has some of the difficulties that you describe. At first it was a little like handling a wet noodle. She is turning into a very competent driving dog. Strengths-- good balance, nice flanks come along with weaknesses--In the age of Prozac it is tempting to to assign any difficulty as a disease that needs to be cured. Just as in people there are no perfect dogs. Encourage the strengths, build training foundations to deal with the difficulties. Hope this helps, best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smokinjbc Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Thanks for the reply! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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