How DOWN is Down?

[Guest Smokinjbc]

Hi Amanda,

 

 

How much do you insist on a decent stop with younger dogs? Dog in question is just started at 16 months, has a good down on balance but will pop up to cover balance or resist downing when sheep are not on balance. I know its a good issue to have- right now I'm just trying to only ask her on balance but if you do miss the timing (you probably never do ), do you insist on the obedience or what do you look for before you do?

[Guest Amanda]

Jaime

I do miss the timing on unpleasant occasion.

I'd make that dog stop. Particularly if you are not such an experienced hand. It is very hard to control a dog who is pouring onto his sheep, just from a handler standpoint. Maybe you're there, I don't know.

I am infamous for letting dogs come on and manage sheep for me on the front lines, and me steer. The truth is, I have had to learn to run them that way, because they wouldn't stop--a failure on my part in their training. Every time I train a youngun, I vow to have better control of it.

It's funny you should bring this up. I have been training a dog I really like, over the last month or two. He has been exceptionally obedient. I am not accustomed to dogs stopping. It nearly throws me off, but he has been tremendous for stopping. Today, this morning, he assumed the more general demeanour of dogs I run, ignored my stop and kept coming onto his sheep, albeit nicely. When I got tough about the stop (remember my vow), he as good as said, "What for? It's good."

Smart Alec was in a way right, he was good, but I want the luxury of being able to stop at will. He is becoming a proper little sheep manager with a bold confidence about what he does. I like that. But he must stop.

It sounds the same with yours. You maybe need that stop even more than I do. Trials draw different tensions out of dogs and handlers. and stopping, letting everything settle down, especially with young dogs, is a lovely asset

We all need every premium available, so at sixteen months, I would insist on the stop. Now that you have reminded me, I will get serious with my own dog's stop tomorrow morning.

It is fun to take the measure of that prinicpal, at trials, watching individual good hands run their various styles of dogs, with their divergent styles of running them. The keen eye can learn a lot watching with an eye to second guessing the handling--what stop worked, where more dog was appropriate, where a dog kept coming to advantage, how much start and stop. Good students of sheep dogging, and learning never ends in sheep dogging, have day long clinics available to them at trials it they are clever. Wasteful not be.

yours

Amanda

[Guest mrsjordanjr]

Great answers Amanda. So true about watching and learning. You don't always have to be the one on the field to pick up on good handling.

[Guest Sue]

Maybe this sounds dumb on my part, but would you mind explaining how you "insist" on a down. This has been a problem for myself and my dog for a while.

 

I sometimes hear that, if you can't do anything about it (the dog is fairly far out) in a timely fashion, to just forget it and make sure you work on it closer in where you can do something about it.

 

Sometimes I am told to head on out to where he is, forget the stock, and get hold of him (if he doesn't stop and down seeing you coming out "to get him", at which point you release the pressure by moving away from him) and put him down with a hand on his ruff.

 

I've also been told to put a long line on him and "jerk" him if he doesn't down (or blows off anything else I tell him). He knows the difference between being on a long line and having it taken off, so he responds differently with and without it.

 

I've even been told I needed to try an electronic collar (that he's "cheating" on me) but I wouldn't do that for any dog, plus he is a sensitive dog. I don't think there would be any benefit to it and a great deal of harm could be done with something like that in the hands of a novice like me (timing is not my strong point).

 

My dog is sometimes great about taking the down and sometimes just wants to stop or hesitate (he's a real stickler for covering his stock). He often (when he does down) gets right back up again, and I wind up saying "down" over and over. His response to my down command is often dependent on the stock, and what he "thinks" he needs to do to maintain control.

 

We've been improving but I find it confusing that different folks mean different things by "down" (focus and think, stop, lie down, etc.), and then others feel that "down" means down and nothing else.

 

I know a lot of his problems are due to me - I get anxious, don't control the tone of my voice well, put on too much pressure at times, don't always position myself well, etc. I am grateful that we have been improving thanks to a good trainer and some great clinics, but doing well at the "down" business seems to be eluding me. The best I could say is that we are inconsistent in getting it right.