Starting Pups

[Guest Teampenner]

Amanda,

 

Thank you for taking time this month to share your expertise with us "Little Hats". I've enjoyed reading your posts and appreciate your "straight up" approach.

 

Could you share your thoughts/philosophy on starting youngsters? I have a keen young dog that will be starting his training in the Spring. I'm trying to get as many opinions as possible from the "Big Hats" on the following.

 

I've been hearing lately (and watched the "videos") on the so called "kinder, gentler" way of letting a pup work as tight and close as he feels comfortable (as long as he isn't harrassing stock). The theory is that the widening out will come later after he has a feel for balance and is relaxed in his work.

 

I've also watched the Elvin Kopp videos recently in which he spends all of the early training pushing the dog off the sheep, NEVER allows a flank that isn't squared off and never lets the dog have the sheep unless he gives a proper cast and distance first. He also has a lot of obedience training installed before the dog ever has his first exposure to stock (100% compliant lie-down). I'm sure there are degrees of both extremes and I'm sure a lot depends on the type of dog you are dealing with.

 

I would be very interested in your thoughts on this topic.

 

Respectfully,

Sharon P.

[Guest Amanda]

Maybe I adhere to the kindler gentler approach insofar as I am not fussy about square flanks. The way the dog has with his sheep is more important to me. I scold for commotion from the sheep. I hope my dogs learn to stop causing commotion in the process of their training. It could be that under some circumstances, a square flank would be quite wrong, where the dog lost contact with them. The great dog is the one that stays the easy distance away, settling the sheep, at the same time it takes charge of them. Whether or not the flank was square getting there, is immaterial. It's the smoothness of the job that is essential. A flowing run brings you a poised dog, just flanking enough to hold the line. That is what I try to teach them. I could give up any number of square flanks for a fabulous dog with a great way with his sheep.

I am not so particular about flat obedience. A lie down that seems senseless to a youngster, away from sheep, suddenly assumes meaning, when it gets to the back of sheep. They'll learn it quickly enough. Outside of being agreeable, coming, knowing the difference between right and wrong, you can relax with puppies and let them enjoy themselves.

You are right to note it depends on the type of dog with whom you're dealing.

The nice way with sheep is a big ticket item that makes everything else easier, so that you don't have be duking it out with dog every morning.

[Guest Smokinjbc]

Hi Amanda,

 

I too am enjoying your posts. For the youngsters that cause "alot" of commotion- what is your typical method to get them focused/steady? We've got two littermates now that are very different. A voice correction will work well on the female pup when she's causing a mess but the male (who seems tougher/braver) is more kamikaze in his approach and does not respond as well to body position/voice correction. They are 8 months old and we aren't putting much pressure on them, just bringing them to sheep once a week or so- but also don't want him to learn that its a free-for-all on sheep. We have gotten him to do a little better, but he's still a handful. I also have been reading up on things like the Scrimgeour book that emphasizes less pushing out and more letting the dog know when its handling sheep wrong- but with these pups that are super pushy- where is the happy medium?

 

This is not the first pups I've worked with (the pushy pup does belong to my SO who is just starting out in stockdogs) and we are far from good help but hope to take them to a good clinic in the spring. These pups seem a little slower to mature than other pups I've had, so I've already got it in my mind that these pups aren't going to do much until over a year- just trying to approach this super keen pup the right way.

[Guest Amanda]

An aspiring sheep dog hand in Las Vegas!!! for heaven's sake.

The sheep will tell you what's the happy medium. Somehow, let the dog know you resent his causing the mess. Having said that, your dog's diving and get a bit of the action may be youthfull exuberance. You might wait to take him to sheep and work with the more sensible of the pair.

I am not above tossing a broad, blunt, about a foot long, stick at an out of control dog, to get its attention. In a frenzy of new, exploding instinct, sometimes the regular measures, like body position and voice do not cut the mustard and you have to do whatever it takes. but he sounds a bit green for extreme measures.

Amanda