Quick Question...

[ClickMeBC]

Sierra and I have our first NADAC trial in June, and the "categories", or 'Proficient' and 'Skilled', have me stumped. I've read the descriptions over and over and cannot seem to drill through my head the difference between the points recieved under each category.

 

For anyone familiar with NADAC, I'll just put it this way: We're entered in Novice(Chances, Jumpers and Regular) and she jumps 16" in the standard division. Which category should I put her down for?

[Guest CleverDog]

Sorry, if I'm reiterating anything you know: most venues have a category where the dogs will jump their 'normal' height, or you can enter a category where the dog jumps one height lower than it normally should. It is up to you which class you want to do, people who normally jump their dogs lowers might have (like my dog was) health problems like hip dysplasia, or maybe the way the dog measured up and they don't want them to jump that high, etc...there are any number of reasons! In NADAC, the 'skilled' means the regular jump height, the 'proficient' means that you can jump one hieght lower.

 

I think it is relatively new for them, it sounds like you can do both and combine the points earned in both required for a specific title or award, until you get to the Elite level. In the Elite level, you get different awarded titles for skilled and proficient, you can't combine the points to count towards one title. I went to look at their website to see the points required for each -it's unavailable for me right now, but if you could look at that, I think the points would make more sense to you.

 

So, if you don't have anything against jumping your dog 16'', and she seems to be fine with it, then I would enter her in Proficient. Hope I helped and didn't confuse you more! I wouldn't really worry about the points. (Not sure if it's your first trial -you earn points for each run/Q that count towards a title...)

[Kat's Dogs]

Um, sorry Clever dog - but that isn't quite right.

 

This confused me for a long time but a few months ago I figured it out! Yay!

I read the NADAC rule book so many times I pretty much turned into it - so if anyone needs help while the rulebook is unavailable - I am ready!

 

In skilled regular you can earn 5 point Qs (any faults between .01 and 5, you earn a 5 point Q). You can also earn 10 point Qs for a clean run. In proficient, all runs must be clean in order to Q. In all the classes other than regular, regardless of skilled/proficient, runs have to have 0 faults to Q.

 

For any given trial you can only enter as either Skilled, or Proficient - not both in the same trial. But you can switch back and forth if you so desire.

 

In Novice and Open, SKILLED and PROFICIENT points earn the exact same titles - THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN POINTS AT ALL. In Elite only the different categories earn different titles, Skilled going towards MEDALS and Proficient goes towards the NATCHs. If you earn 20 points in Novice Regular Skilled and 10 in Novice Regular Proficient you earn the Novice Regular title. It does NOT matter!

 

In SKILLED you can take the option to jump 4" lower than measured height (which for Sierra is 16") but it is not required to take the reduction. In Proficient you MUST jump measured height unless you are doing JH or VH. If you do JH/VH AND "Skilled -4" you can take both reductions and jump 8" lower (that would be 8", very low)

 

With the new rules, on a side note:

Junior Handler, Vet Dog, and Vet Handler all earn the SAME titles now - nothing goes after the title like before (NAC, instead of NAC-JH). If some points are JH/VH, some standard, and some skilled, and some proficient - in Novice and Open they all count towards the same title! In JH/VH you are required to take the 4" height reduction - it is not an option.

 

 

So, all that said, as long as you are in Novice, go with skilled (IMO). You earn the same titles and everything and can work towards a NATCH, plus you get the option to earn 5 point Qs in regular if you get a few faults (knocked bars, time faults, etc). Only once you get to Elite (in any class, remember, only one category per trial) does it really matter.

If any of that didn't make sense I could try again...

[Alaska]

as long as you are in Novice, go with skilled

 

This is all you really need to know. Enter skilled, select the jump height you want, and run as well as you can. Since you're in skilled, you have the option of jumping the next height lower, the option of a 5 point Q, and the "option" of a slightly longer course time. You can take advantage of any or none of those options. Either way, your points count exactly the same as proficient points while you're in novice, so entering skilled instead of proficient just makes it a little easier for you and Sierra to be successful at the start of your agility career.

 

Don't dismiss the option of the lower jump height at your first trial. You may think your dog can easily clear 16", but it has been hammered into my head that lowering the jump height DOES reduce the pressure on the dog, and believe me, you will both be feeling the pressure at your first trial. At the last trial I was at, I noted that many of the more experienced handlers ran their dogs at the lowest jump height they could, unless the dog was super competitive. That's the NADAC philosophy -- make it fun for the dog, make it easy on the dog's joints, and keep on happily playing agility for many years to come.

 

BTW, the nadac_agility group on yahoo is THE place to get these kinds of questions answered.

[Kat's Dogs]

FWIW, Dazzle has been and will be in "Skilled -4" all the way through open. She likes 16". I like her jumping 16". I like NADAC for letting her (a perfectly healthy, agile, fit, young BC) jump low. It is true, that is what NADAC is about - the dogs!

 

Good luck at the trial...

[abbies_mumma]

So is "skilled -4" the official name for "skilled"? Or is "skilled -4" different to "skilled"? I'm getting confused!

 

EDIT: Wait I think I just got it... "Skilled -4" means you're in "skilled" catagorie and you're jumping -4" from the measured height. Is that right??

[ClickMeBC]

Thank you, thank you! I think I'm finally grasping it. As I did with the CPE rulebook when we first started competing, I'm reading this one again and again, over and over, upside down and backwards - but the categories continued to confuse me. I very much appreciate the time everyone took to explain it for me.

 

So we'll enter under "Skilled". I do have one more question...two actually - I do take advantage of some the "options" that come along with "skilled" while at the trial, correct? And the points we earn under skilled work towards a NATCH until we make the elite level?

 

Again, thanks so much!

[Kat's Dogs]

Abbie's Mum, yes that is correct! The minus 4 just means that dog will be taking advantage of the height reduction.

 

Yes, skilled points in Novice/Open still get your towards your NATCH just the same.

 

Hmmmm. I don't know if I understand your question....

You have to choose that you will be in skilled, and your jump height, on the trial premium. You can't decide that after you are already entered in the trial (unless the trial secretary is VERY nice!). If the is what you mean.... maybe?

[ClickMeBC]

I apologize for not being clear - Alaska mentioned the option of a 5 point Q(still learning, not sure what the difference is) and the option of a slightly longer course time. I don't know if I'd take either, but wanted to be sure that it wasn't something I should be looking for on the premium. I did make sure to check "skilled" and we're jumping standard height.

[Kat's Dogs]

Okay! I get the question now...

 

And there is NO extra time in skilled. Same course time as Proficient (the only time you get EXTRA course time is in JH/VH).

 

__________________________________

 

When you are in Skilled, if you get a clean run with 0 faults - you get 10 points (10 point Q) for your titles.

 

Now, say on your next run you dropped a bar (or rather, the dog did! ) and so you now have 5 faults. In Skilled you still qualify! (in Proficient the run HAS to be clean to earn points). But you only get 5 title points instead of the 10. So if you get between a 0.01 faults (over time) or 5 faults (time or knocked bar) you get 5 points instead of 10. this is GOOD because those little half-Qs add up to major points.

 

Not to worry, if you get a clean run you still earn the 10 points!

But in skilled rather than NQing because of a knocked bar you get just 5 points, but still a pretty purple ribbon!

 

__________________________________

Summery:

 

Overall, what skilled does is allow lower jump heights, and allows 5 point Q's for those ALMOST clean runs.

The jump height thing is an OPTION, the 5 point Q's simply HAPPEN.

There are no SCT (Standard Course Time) differences between Skilled and Proficient.

 

 

Remember, 5 point Qs are your friend!!

In skilled, 6 runs each with one knocked bar equals 30 points, a Title, and pretty ribbons (Happy! )

In proficient, 6 runs each with one a knocked bar equals 0 points, no titles, and no ribbons. (Sad )

 

 

Hopefully that helped.

Again, good luck!

[ClickMeBC]

You've helped immensely! I do understand now, and I really appreciate the time you've taken to explain all this...and it sounds like a blast. I look forward eagerly to our first NADAC trial! I also regret only being able to make one day of it that particular weekend, but there will always be more trials.

 

Thanks again!

[Alaska]

And there is NO extra time in skilled. Same course time as Proficient (the only time you get EXTRA course time is in JH/VH).

 

Ha! It's NADAC trivia time here. I surely don't want to pick an argument with Kat, who I hugely respect, but I wondered where I got the impression that you get extra time in skilled so I researched it a bit and here is the answer. Kat is right that FOR A GIVEN JUMP HEIGHT (and excluding the JH/VH exception) there is no difference in the SCT (standard course time) between skilled and proficient, i.e. a dog jumping 20" in skilled gets the same SCT as a dog jumping 20" in proficient.

 

However, the SCT differs for large dogs (jumping 20"), medium dogs (jumping 16") and small dogs (jumping 12" or less). The SCT is determined by what height the dog actually jumps, so if you have a dog who would jump 20" in proficient and you choose to have him jump 16" in skilled, the SCT will be a few seconds longer because he will get the medium dog time instead of the large dog time. Thus, SOME dogs (including most BCs) will get a little extra time by running skilled instead of proficient, but this is only true for dogs who would increase from large to medium SCT or medium to small SCT by dropping 4" in jump height.

 

To quote Sharon Nelson, "The original intent of the Skilled category was not to give more time, but to give a jump height break. But [the extra course time] has become a nice addition for the larger dogs. And since most larger dogs do age a bit more rapidly than the smaller dogs, it is a plus for them."

 

But wait, there's more! In regular only, skilled dogs can go as much as 4.99 seconds over SCT and still get a 5 point Q, so there's another way that you get a little more time (even if a 5 point Q isn't worth as much as a 10 point Q, it's worth more than NQ if you enter proficient and go 1 second over time). The 5 point Q only applies to regular though, not the other classes.

 

Again, I'm not disagreeing with Kat, just tag teaming to fill in some more details.

 

IMHO, if you're a newbie you should just enter the simplest class/level you can (i.e. novice skilled) and give it your best without worrying about these nuances. The rules you need to pay attention to are the ones about what you can do on the start line, legal performance of individual obstacles, etc. Once you have those fixed in your head, just go run and see what happens. And don't get too obsessed about getting a Q right off the bat. This being NADAC, your focus should be on making sure that you and your dog have plenty of fun, so you both can't wait to go back and do it again.

[Kat's Dogs]

Very True.

 

THAT is the distiction - no EXTRA course time than proficient dogs (like in JH/VH, blah blah blah), but there is the time that happens to be longer that goes with lower heights

 

.

[abbies_mumma]

Thanks Kat!