cattle

[hsnrs]

We worked cattle yesterday with our 3 Aussies. The male ran away. The 2 girls did OK but each got kicked once. What should I have done to prevent this? It was a work day for our club. Thanks. N

[stockdogranch]

If your dog is working cattle, sooner or later, it's gonna get kicked, usually in the jaw, and usually when it goes in to hit a hock or heel. You can't avoid it. But, with any luck, the dog will soon learn how to avoid it by watching for the foot that has weight on it. The smart ones hit really low on that heel and then are ready for the other foot to come up and kick, making sure they are in a position to let it go right by them. You can see them watching for it and turning their head sideways to get as low as possible on the heel. But you can't teach this to them--they have to figure it out on their own.

 

You should have been warned before you went in to work them the first time.

 

There's an old saying that you never know if you have a cowdog or what kind of a cowdog you've got till it gets kicked. The ones that are true cowdogs will take that kick and just keep on going--all business, as if nothing ever happened. Others decide at that point that working cattle is not for them, and you really can't make 'em.

 

A

[Sue R]

Amen to what Anna says. My Bute is a confirmed hock-gripper and he hasn't managed yet to figure out to go for the heel, and the right one at that. Perhaps he has figured out which is the better hock. Celt, on his absolutely rare grips, goes for the lower cannon bone.

 

My dogs have been raised with cattle. Some trainers feel that, in general, cattle can be easier for some dogs to work than sheep. I think that dogs that haven't been exposed to them can be very intimidated. However, an adaptable dog can figure out how to work different species as well as different breeds.

 

Cattle aren't for all dogs - or maybe I should say, not all dogs are for cattle. I agree with Anna that whoever was in charge should have made sure that all understood that cattle can kick and there are different risks working them.

 

Our late Aussies and all our Border Collies have been kicked, generally in the head, but they learn very quickly to roll with the punches, it's usually just a glancing blow and maybe a roll, and they get right back up and into the job with renewed vigor and a lesson learned.

[hsnrs]

We weren't warned about the kick but know that it was possible. Just glad the girls went back to work only more cautious. The male did come back and would wear behind them with me beside him. So it was a good experience all around. N

[Sue R]

I think the point Anna was making about being warned (and, since you already knew and were okay with it, that was fine) is that people who are not familiar with cattle may have no idea that they can and do deliver a powerful kick. Dogs that are unfamiliar with cattle (and have only been worked on sheep) may be caught off their guard but the smart ones (like yours) quickly learn. However, since a cow kick can cause a serious injury, anyone conducting a session for others with cattle should really make sure all are aware that an additional hazard is possible, especially for an inexperienced dog (or handler).

 

The dog that takes a kicking and comes back thinking and working is a real cattle dog. A sensible level of caution is a good thing.

[Wendy V]

This is why I stay away from cattle. I don't know a damned thing about them and their kicks scare the hell out of me. I certainly wouldn't put my dogs in an arena with them for "fun". Too many dogs have earned career ending injuries in pursuit of a "title". I admire those whose dogs have to work them for a living.

 

Okay, so how's that for a totally useless post on the subject?

[stockdogranch]

Okay, so how's that for a totally useless post on the subject?

Actually, that's exactly what I hear from lots of people. And it's a totally understandable point of view.

 

The dog that takes a kicking and comes back thinking and working is a real cattle dog.

 

Amen!

 

A

[Sue R]

I have to say I am a bit biased. I am more afraid of sheep than cattle myself. I have been seriously hurt by a sheep - when they run, they seem to run through whatever is in their way. They hit you at knee level. When cattle move (in my limited experience), you are more likely to get knocked aside, but only if they can't go around you. Not to say they can't hurt - they are big and can seriously injure or kill, on purpose or otherwise.

 

I have an acquaintance who was worked over by a mother cow and spent quite some time in the hospital, and had to use a cane for some time after. His recovery is partly due to being physically strong and having a tough, won't-be-beaten attitude. My husband has also had a mother cow try to rub him into the ground, and our dog and teenage son went after the cow and drove her off. If they hadn't been there then, he might not be here now. I, too, have had a mother cow knock me to the ground and work me over. When she let me up, she hit me and threw me over the fence.

 

Note that all of these cases have been cows with calves and, in every case, human judgement error contributed to the situation. Also note that it has been the people, not the dogs, that have been injured. In the first, the man turned his back on a mother cow in a confined area. In the second, Ed was trying to treat a very young calf with pinkeye - mother cows seem most solicitous and dangerous when their babies are tiny or otherwise needing special help. In the third, I was just plain stupid and chose to ignore the cow's warnings and pushed my luck. The danger is very real.

 

In all our small farm dog work with cattle over the years (Aussies and Border Collies), one dog received what we felt was a serious "cow kick" (sideways kick) that got him right in the ribs. He was in pain, came right off the cattle, bent like a donut, and fussing. Within half an hour, minus the bruise tenderness, you would never have guessed he'd been kicked. That same dog did have some cracked and broken teeth by old age. He was an Aussie with a good heel grip but wasn't the speediest dog on his feet. His enthusiasm sometimes also overcame common sense. We didn't have a clue what we were doing and did not train him well.

 

Our old Rocket was once, foolishly, worked on someone else's cattle that had never been worked by a dog. He was kicked in the front leg, finished the job, and limped a little bit. Years later, we found during an x-ray for something else, that his leg had been broken. They can be very stoic. Again, human error.

 

What we have found is that, when the cattle are dog broke and the dogs are working (and worked) right, the danger is minimized. It's always there but good training, good handling, good stock that is well-handled, and good dogs minimize it. It's when we don't use common sense, read our stock and our dogs, that injuries are most likely to happen.

[stockdogranch]

I am more afraid of sheep than cattle myself

 

I have to agree with this. Sheep have absolutely no regard for personal space--theirs, yours, or anyone else's!

 

A

[hsnrs]

We have been knocked down by sheep too. The cattle were much easier to figure out but don't want my dogs to get hurt til we work more with them. It was a fun experience though. N

[Wendy V]

I want to thank ya'll for not taking offense at me shooting my mouth off about something I know nothing about. I was away from the 'puter for a day and was a bit worried that I might of stirred something up inadvertantly. I wasn't criticizing, just expressing a fear.

 

I'll try to keep the ol' pie-hole closed for at least a day.

[Sue R]

Wendy - You didn't say anything that offended me, for sure. If I didn't live with and work with cattle, they would scare the poopie out of me, too. We all have our own fears and mine are largely based on a sheep that decided to go right through me, and did a world of hurt to my leg. But, it could have been worse and so I am grateful it wasn't.

 

Dogs may leave pawprints on our hearts, but livestock of all sorts can leave hoofmarks on our bodies. They all need to be worked with respect and safety in mind.

[Wendy V]

That is for sure. One day I will share the story of how I acquired several cloven hoof marks along my spine. Wasn't a good day!