*Working* a Young Dog

[kajarrel]

I wasn't quite sure if this topic is close enough to add to Denise's post, so started my own thread. I'm in a desperate situation this summer. I HAD two adult dogs working last fall. However, Dog 1 is 13 and has slowed down and doesn't really want to work anymore. Dog 2 has severe arthritis in his shoulder and gets extremely lame after any strenuous activity so I'm working him sparingly. In the meantime, I have 80 sheep and about 50 lambs which I'm moving daily from largely unfenced pasture to pasture. And, I periodically need to move the sheep home (about 1/2 - 3/4 mile through fields, woods and across stream) when I have lamb customers. The work is largely falling on my 11 month old pup, Sputnik's, shoulders . . . She's got a nice outrun and gather and is driving fairly well (although she gets a little confused when I drive with her too much). I've been doing most of this with minimal commands. I can't control every situation, and things aren't always perfect, but I'm between a rock and a hard place. I've never just started working a young dog. Any suggestions on how to do this successfully (short of getting another dog, which is out of the question)?

 

Kim

[Lana]

Kim, i am no expert, but real work is the best way to train a young dog. Assuming the pup is ready physically and mentally to work, there is nothing like "real work". If the jobs are fairly straightforward, and she knows what is expected, you are giving this young dog a great start. If she starts to quite, or do stress relief actions like eating poop or diving in and grabbing sheep then flying out, then i would be looking to put her up. If she is working well and making progress i would not worry.

 

This past week I took one of our young dogs on her first trip to move cattle in rough country. She started out like a wild women, but soon discovered there was way more work than she had ever seen, or could do all in one day. She was just learning to drive before the trip, but 8 hours behind hundreds of cow calf pairs and i think she has the idea I am looking forward to seeing how she starts out next time we go, but i know her long day of real work was equivalent to about a month or more of "training" work.

 

Lana

[kajarrel]

Thanks, Lana. You're making me feel a little better. She doesn't eat poop (when working ). However, I do notice her getting slightly distracted when I work her for an extended period of time. And this is one of my concerns: that when I'm in the middle of something, I can't just say "oh well, dog's getting (mentally) tired, we need to stop for the day." Another thing I am concerned about is the lack of control. When I trained my young dogs in the past, I liked to set things up so that initially things went smoothly or so that they did things right. I can do this to a certain extent - for example, moving the sheep through areas that we've already grazed rather than through lush grass because they're easier to move, etc. - but some times we're working in less than optimal situations.

 

The first time around, I made mistakes -- green handler, young dog. Now, I've got some stock sense and am better able to help my dog, but worry that I'll push her too hard. . . or encourage sloppy work in an effort to "get the job done."

 

Kim

[Sue R]

While Lana says she is "no expert", I think that most of us would heartily disagree with her assessment! I, on the other hand, am an acknowledged novice.

 

I have notice that my Celt, who will get mentally exhausted with training pretty quickly (of course, we are often working on problems and issues, so that doesn't suprise me a great deal), can put in a lot more physical and mental effort doing a real job without frying his brain, but rather getting steadier and more "solid" as the work progresses, and isn't "ready to quit" as he might be when training work gets to cause too much anxiety.

 

I think that, at least in the "old days" when real work was the rule and trialling was the "recreation" in the UK, that most training was accomplished "on the hill" and not much but the real young dog stuff was worked on in a purely training situation. I think real work, while just as beneficial (maybe more so?) as training, is often recognized as "accomplishing" something by a dog and therefore seems to be less stressful. And maybe I'm wrong, as my experience is very limited.

[kajarrel]

I think real work, while just as beneficial (maybe more so?) as training, is often recognized as "accomplishing" something by a dog and therefore seems to be less stressful.

 

I do think that the dogs feel a sense of "accomplishment" (purpose) with real work. The proof in the pudding is that once they learn what you want them to do, they do what it takes to accomplish your goal (IOW, don't need constant commands to work.) I was amazed the other day that "Sputty" seemed to understand, after I gave her a few "commands," that I wanted to keep the sheep out of the tall grass and on the trail (working the sides while moving the sheep forward) . . . This in a pup that (I don't think) knows her sides yet.

 

Lana,

A question - so you don't worry about that initial "wildness"? What I've been doing is having Sput do a few figure eights or weaves in the field before we start moving. This seems to take the "edge off" . . .

 

Kim

[Lana]

Kim, i do worry about the wildness factor on cattle, but not on sheep. Large numbers of stock can straighten out a dog's attitude, but cattle are much more dangerous. I think there is a difference between a keen young dog who thinks he is invincible in a solid self confidence sort of way, and a pup that lacks common sense and self preservation. The 2nd kind is not one I would want to keep for real work.

 

As i said i have only ever trained my own dogs( read i don't do this for a living), and just when i think i have some of this figured out i get a new pup who challenges every theory i ever had I do appreciate a dog who knows how to take care of himself, as they tend be the kind who also want to partner with you when the time comes.Just to be clear I am not suggesting taking raw pups to rough stock, but the situation you described sounds ideal for a good young dog. I agree with Sue that real work can be less of a stress than training, the more the job makes sense to the dogs mind the less stress it is.

 

Lana