More on Whistles

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I've always had other people put whistles on my dogs. And honestly I've never needed whistles unless the dog just responded better to them - my old farm was only ten acres. Now my smallest graze is ten acres!

 

I have a dog that has never had whistles but works at the pronovice level (ish), two pups, and a dog that has flanks and a stop whistle, basically, so I'd like to add more whistles to his repertoire.

 

Can someone refresh my memory on how to do this? On my older dogs I've tried saying the command and whistling over and over, then dropping the command, but it doesn't seem to work - does it just take a while? Have I got the order reveresd?

 

Feelin' kinda stoopid . . . .

[Shoofly]

I find the way that makes the most sense to the dogs is to use body language to get the "motion" then blow the whistle. Get the action you want and pair the whistle to it. You could use voice commands to get the motion but i like body language better if i can figure out how to use it. Then work towards making the body language less and less obvious, then go to giving body language that's counter to the whistle command when you think the dog is getting it.

[mjk05]

I'm hardly an expert, but I thought in general it'd be better to put the new command first (ie new whistle then known voice command), so the dog learns to anticipate the voice command from hearing the whistle, if you know what I mean.

 

I guess the other way would work too- after all, that's how we generally teach initial commands of any sort (just pairing the command to the action the dog is doing), but I think for a trained dog, they may learn the whistle faster if it precedes the known command.

[stockdogranch]

Yes--exactly. Give the whistle first, then immediately give the verbal that they know well. They will begin anticipating the verbal to come after that whistle, and there you are! This is the method that I've always used, and it seems to work great.

 

OK--so as long as we're on whistles, I've had this theory for a while now, but no way to separate out the variables to really test it (this is the linguist/academic in me I guess trying to figure this stuff out). It seems to me that the dogs tend to respond better--more quickly, more accurately, on whistles once they know them. AND, I also feel that I think faster in whistles--it seems to take me some nanoseconds longer to give the correct flank, say, verbally than to use the whistle. Does anyone else have the same experience, or is it just that I use them more, so both dogs and I are more comfortable with them? Or does anyone else care?

Anna

[Pipedream Farm]

Use the same method you used to put vocal commands on your dogs.

 

Mark

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I am definitely much more proficient in whistle language than I am in words. I'm musically inclined and my left right issues don't seem to be as pronounced when I'm thinking in tones. Also, my whistling is confident and smooth, and calm, where my vocal cues reflect my general state of panic at my spatial disorientation, my distrust of my dog, the list goes on and on.

 

Really, I'm working very hard these days on correcting my voice but I'd still like to increase my dogs' range. Anyway, yes, the dogs are also more responsive to whistles because they are less ambiguous, I believe (um, assuming you've done your whistle homework before inflicting so-so whistles on your dog! )

[stockdogranch]

Gee, I hadn't even considered the left/right issue or the musically inclined aspect as being part of the equation, but that sure makes sense!

 

I agree that the whistles can be less ambiguous, but there certainly are a ton of inflections that can be put on the same basic whistle--maybe even more so than with verbals. For insatnce, my away whistle for a large outrun is slow and drawn out, but for a quick, "oh, crap! My vision is so bad, I thought they were gonna make the cross drive panels, but they're too high, so HURRY, HURRY!" is just that, short, quick, and with an urgency that my dogs seem to read very clearly. Now I certainly can draw out the verbal command or speed it up or whatever, but not nearly as well as the whistle, due to its musical qualities...hmmmm, just pondering...

 

It's more fun to ponder such things while I'm at work that to actually do WORK,

Anna

[juliepoudrier]

I've been using Robin's method of body language coupled with the whistle. Lark certainly isn't 100 percent on her flanks on voice yet, but seems less tense when I use whistles, so I just started using body pressure and the whistle command and she seems to be getting it just fine. If she doesn't respond to my whistle, then I give the voice command.

 

Anna, IMO, while you can transmit emotion through a whistle, and like you I use whistle speed and tone to affect my dog, I also think that the whistle maybe doesn't transmit as much handler tension (perhaps that's because a tense handler can't blow a whistle, LOL!) and therefore can settle a tense/nervy dog. Rachel pointed out to me the other day that I was very sharp with my lie downs for Lark (in anticipation of the fact that she was likely going to blow me off) and I think my sharpness just makes her more tense and pushy, a fact that a figured out a month or so ago, and is why I started the whistles before she was 100 percent on voice--which all may hurt me later, I don't know. While the lie down whistle in itself is somewhat sharp, she doesn't get my aggravation through the whistle tone as easily and so is actually responding better to the whistle than to the voice command. Does that make sense? I know people can yell "through" their whistle commands, but I think it's harder to do so than when just using your voice.

 

As for left vs. right, I view directions from the sheep's perspective instead of the handler's (i.e., if the sheep are coming off the top and are bearing off to their left, I say the sheep are heavy to the left, whereas most folks I know say they're heavy to the right--the handler's right), which always makes for interesting conversations! But it's always made more sense to me since I can then connect the way I want the dog to go with the way the sheep are going--if they're heavy to their left, then the dog must go left to cover. It all makes sense spatially to me (if to no one else).

 

J.

[stockdogranch]

Yes, I agree, especially with the lie down whistle--even though it's sharp, it's not nearly as aggravated or angry or whatever the word is as voice, which often escalates into yelling. I totally agre that it helps eliminate transferring some of the tension, especially in a trial situation. And I, too, start whistles early, before they're 100% on verbals, using body language, same as I would do for verbals. If I'm in the right position, they take the whistle... But that's my own dogs, and I can sometimes get away with pushing things a bit fast (I start my dogs WAY earlier than anyone else, too, with no detrimental effects), whereas with a student, especially with a first dog, I feel it's impotant to go through each step along the way.

 

As for right vs. left, for me it has nothing to do with where *I* am, it's the dog's position relative to the stock. So I always describe it from the dog's perspective, regardless of where I am (which is hopefully leaning against the trailer in the shade, drinking a brew)

Anna

[Sue R]

(perhaps that's because a tense handler can't blow a whistle, LOL!)

 

Julie - Maybe you hit the reason why I can manage to whistle somewhat by myself in the car, and not reasonably at all in the field with Celt!

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I have a disconnect between all spatial references and my verbal center, so it makes no difference what my beginning reference point is - it will get mixed up in my head because (double whammy), I'm almost a verbal thinker. All the good dog trainers I know just picture what needs to be done - I have to express it in words in my head first.

 

I believe whistling bypasses this somehow because I can react so much quicker, and have room to think through things while relying on whistles to communicate. I can think about what I'm doing rather than trying to keep up with what's going on.

 

I forced myself to go back to verbal commands with Ben last summer and I'm like 50% better but it's such a pain, and I'm not sure what I'm proving now, lol. Cord has a few whistles - we got "in gear" with the verbal commands (and I needed to work on my tone). So it's time to dust off the old lanyard.