Arrgh - cat chasing!

[painted_ponies]

Faith, now almost six months old, is a cat chaser. I have tried several things which don't work at all:

saying "annngh",

saying "anngh" and distracting her with a toy,

saying "anngh" and physically blocking her from reaching the cat (she is now fast enough to outflank me ), and screeching "no" and swatting her fanny (ok not proud of it, but she didn't even seem to notice so I doubt I've left a lasting psychic scar).

 

A couple of things which partially work:

saying "leave it" and giving her a treat when she leaves the kitty and comes to me. This only partially works because as soon as she gets the treat she returns to the cat. And it means I have to walk around with a pocketful of liver treats all the time so I constantly smell of eau de pate.

dumping the contents of a glass of water on her head. Again, not proud of it but sometimes they push you over the edge. This worked but made an inconvenient mess.

 

Squirting her in the nose with a water pistol worked for awhile but now she just opens her mouth, swallows the water, and continues chasing the cat.

 

This really can't continue. Faith killed her first mouse a couple of weeks ago, and I'm beginning to worry about the cats' safety. They are not particularly worried - both of them slap her and one bites her in the face - but they tend to overestimate their abilities. I also don't want to end up with a one-eyed dog with a pierced nose.

 

Advice would be most greatly appreciated!

 

ETA: I don't mean to make her sound like an obtuse maniac, which the above probably does. She really is a wonderful dog in all other ways. Very bright, affectionate, quick to learn her obedience commands (although "stay" is not her forte ). I love the intensity she brings to everything she does. Except for the cat-chasing.

[juliepoudrier]

I think this is a situation where physical punishment is appropriate. Faith needs to understand that bothering the cats makes you *very* unhappy. Physical for me would start with a scruff shaking with me *in her face* loudly voicing my displeasure. What I did after that would depend on the pup's reaction to the correction, but would be sufficient to make the pup decide that chasing the cats isn't worth the reaction she'll get from me.

 

Pip has recently taken it upon himself to start chasing the chickens (after leaving them alone for months after his initial puppy training to leave them alone--I understand that the screeching and flapping is somewhat irresistable but that's tough--they wouldn't screech and flap if he didn't chase them in the first place). He pulled all the tail feathers out of one of my hen chicks yesterday (the chick's mama, who has pretty much set the chicks out on their own, actually attacked him before I got there). I made sure he knew I was not at all pleased with his behavior. If I have to whack him to stop him I will (I just have to catch him in the act, and then his sorry little self will be in for it). I don't play around when another animal's life is at stake.

 

J.

[MrSnappy]

I agree with Julie here. I put up with no shit when it comes to chasing my aged cat. I fostered, temporarily, a known cat killer. She of course tried to take out my 15 year old cat the first second she saw him, but I was ready for her. I whacked her with my stock stick, got in her face and made it known in no uncertain terms that death was imminent if she tried it again. She chose to leave my cat alone utterly for the few days she remained with me. If he came in the room she averted her head and pretended he did not exist.

 

She was an extreme example, but all new dogs I get in are taught immediately that the cat is off limits. My old cat cannot defend himself against a 50 lbs dog. And I do make sure that my cat has a safe zone where he separated from the dogs by a babygate when I am not there to supervise. But like Julie I make no bones about punishing a behaviour that puts another one of my pets at risk.

 

RDM

[painted_ponies]

Thanks, julie and RDM. That's my feeling as well - that it's time for a come-to-Jesus meeting before someone gets hurt. I'll start with scruff-shaking and see what her reaction to that is. Faith is so much tougher than Violet, who lives to please and crumples at the slightest sign of disapproval. Ah, well, I suppose it's my karma to get one to balance the equation.

 

I know it's not really funny, but I had a chuckle at the thought of Pip plucking chickens. He is well-named, isn't he?

[Cheri McDonald]

I'm with Julie and RDM. Rob loves his Nadia and when we first moved into the new house and took Buddy in, his first thought was "KILL THE CAT!" I immediately got in his face and told him that he was not to harass the cat. A good scruff shake was all it took. At 13 he got the point on the first try. Nadia will now calmly walk by and lay next to Buddy. He in return knows she is off limits period.

[juliepoudrier]

I know it's not really funny, but I had a chuckle at the thought of Pip plucking chickens. He is well-named, isn't he?

Pip needs to learn to spit the offending material (feathers or wool) out of his mouth and then it would be much harder for me to determine who the culprit is (although now I have a darn good idea who). Yesterday it was pretty darn obvious who had gotten the chick's tail feathers, since they were plastered all over his muzzle. It's bad enough having to deal with losses to the hawk without having himself help the others along....

 

J.

[kelpiegirl]

I have an older kitty, who is quite a dog lover. Two of my dogs "chase" her. Actually, the older one chases, but only to stop her, no mouth, and the cat has learned to teach her not to, but not running. The younger dog though, she chases, I thought, just that too- but the other day, she "chased" the cat- who merely is trying to come into my bedroom, and kitty got to the hope chest, and sat there non-plussed. I then looked at younger dog who had a chunk of kitty fur in her mouth. My mouth dropped open, and I chastised her, but in the future, it will be much worse, should she try this again. You will NOT hurt my cat, dogs.

Julie

[jjean]

We had the sad situation once when a 3 month old kitten decided to rub Cinna's legs while she was eating. We didn't even know the kitten was in the house at the time. It only took a split second for Cinna to kill him. Hubby's punishment was swift and physical. (Not abusive.)

The next time we adopted 2 one year old cats and Cinna saw them for the first time she climbed in my hubby's lap.

[bc friend]

I, too, used physical reinforcement to get Ben (lhasa) to leave my old cats alone - the oldest one also imparted some physical punishment but the younger one (13 at the time) is a declawed rescue and she absolutely had to be protected so Ben had to stop cat chasing or he couldn't stay w/me. He still grrs at the cats but makes no attempt to chase or attack.

[smileyzookie]

Riven is good with Rohan, but there was once or twice that we had to swat her cause she wouldnt leave him alone. More because she trys to paw him to the ground and Im afraid she'll break his back. I agree with all the advice given.

[Vickkers]

Pepper likes to chase one of my cats but doesn't seem to know what to do when Tai Tai (the kitty) stops running ;P she just sticks her nose out and sniffs her lol. When I catch her I usually make a loud noise or say leave it and she will immediately stop but I usually ask her to stop not because I'm afraid she'll hurt the kitty but because she's obviously annoying her. My other two cats have kicked enough puppy butt that they get left alone. I walked into the kitchen a few months ago and saw pepper with a fully intact claw sticking out of her nose. She hadn't made a peep because she knew she was wrong and would get scolded... I just laughed and extracted the claw which I knew to be from Emma ...the 10 year old 6lb queen tabby who rules the house and doesn't take $h!t from anyone.

 

I love my menagerie... they always keep me entertained

[painted_ponies]

Actually, I'm surprised Faith can get either of my two cats to run from her. My older kitty, Scorp, was raised with a litter of GSDs and had the complete respect of every one of them, even after they became adults. The younger, Clawdia, has learned from Scorp that the best defense is a good offense.

 

Faith still can't put Scorp to flight, but she managed to flush Clawdia this morning. It was strange - Faith at first went into what looked like a play bow, but then turned into a crouch and then a leap forward. Violet must've thought she was for real, as well, because she refused to let Faith anywhere near the cats the rest of the morning (such a good girl).

 

Faith was so pleased with herself for catching and killing the mouse that I'm afraid it's gone to her head.

[bailey44]

Pip needs to learn to spit the offending material (feathers or wool) out of his mouth and then it would be much harder for me to determine who the culprit is (although now I have a darn good idea who)

 

 

Julie,

I'm sitting here wiping tears from laughing! I just keep getting the image of that little scamp trying to look innocent...shades of a Saturday morning cartoon.

 

The dog I had before Polly had to deal with older, wiser cats when she was a pup so like some of you, wisdom over puppy malfeasance won every time. I'd like to get a cat, so we'll have to see how it goes...but I agree that sometimes you have to be firm. My philosophy with training is to hold the "YOU ARE IN BIG TROUBLE" responses just to situations like this so that they really are effective in the shock value.

 

Charlene

[Shetlander]

I'm sitting here wiping tears from laughing! I just keep getting the image of that little scamp trying to look innocent...shades of a Saturday morning cartoon.

 

Quinn doesn't have any cats to chase (I'm sure he'd heartily approve of such a hobby), but I have caught him in the middle of mischief such as trying to nab something from the counter. He instantly flicks on his neon halo, looking meltingly innocent. However, he usually forgets such details as getting his big clodhoppers off my counter

[SincereArtisan]

Do you have any friends with cats who absolutely HATE dogs? And I mean kittys who will not run, but who will chase, instead?

 

I made sure that Rune and Idolon's first encounters of the feline kind were with kitty's who knew how to handle themselves. I had Rune on a leash, in an empty room, with said cat. Of course, cat was minding his own business, I let Rune trot up eagerly to investigate, and she promptly got her ears boxed and the cat chased her back to my side of the room. Mind you, this was when she was fairly young, the cat was a large one, declawed, and it left her with an impression that cats were not to be harassed and completey avoided. She makes exceptions with cats who like to play, such a my old rommates, but as for the ones we live with now she gives them a pretty wide berth and watches them in fascination. In fact, most of her time spent at home is watching the kitties. Since she was young and I had the resources, I figured it be best the cat teach her best.

 

Idolon, on the other hand, didn't quite learn her lesson. So for about a week, I kept a long leash fixed to her and had the end trailing behind her wherever she went...we'd set her up by spooking the cats so she'd give chase, and I'd jump on the end of the leash. Of course, she was brought up short and due to hard-wood floors her feet would usually end up over her ears. This occurred three times before she decided that flipping herself every time she gave chase was no longer fun. I'd also bellow LEAVE IT the moment she budged for the cats, so she associated what came AFTER with my warning.

 

I definately second that something be done, she sounds like she's confident enough that she wont wilt if given a good scruff shake. But definately be in her face, and be LOUD about it. Throw a fit, shake penny bottles, act 'disgusted' with her, make it an experience she'll never forget! The penny bottles, the "Oh what a BAD BAD DOOOOOG!" work great at work with dogs of all sizes.

[Aussie_Dog]

Well, this is an interesting thread. My boy, Jake, loves to chase the cats too, but not in a mean way. We've found out that he chases them, but doesn't hurt them. It's like once he catches up, he doesn't know what to do (and I read a book yesterday that herding dogs have a natural bite inhibition or something, they naturally don't want to bite the sheep; but I don't know how valid that is). But Jake doesn't chase them like your other dogs do, he'll sort of charge them at the last minute, when they're really close, so he almost always gets them. He and the cat will be thrashing about on the ground, and then Willow (it's almost always Buffy that Jake goes for, since she's the most interesting one) will attack Jake, because Buffy is Willow's baby (Willow raised Buffy when Buffy arrived as an orphaned 4 week old). I've never hit Jake, but my temper with him these days has been getting shorter and shorter, but at the same time it gets quieter and quieter. A while back, I would literally lift him and sort of shove him, screaming at him. But now I realize he isn't hurting them, so I (sort of) calmly stalk to him, lift him up so his front feet dangle (sometimes I'm holding him by the scruff, but most of the time I have my arms under his barrel), and I'll sternly and firmly utter "No. BAD dog! No chase kitty!" (but in a venomous way, like a mean old growly dog, lol). I'm not sure it's having an effect anymore, and I've been wondering if actually screaming at him and shoving him off the cat would work better. I don't want to do it and then be called a barbarian, though, lol. I'm a big supporter of positive-only, but like others say, you can't mess with another animal's life. And using the tougher tactic only once in a while makes for a bigger effect.

 

When it comes to the cat's actual safety, I don't worry much, but each "fight" scares the daylights out of the girls and Buffy and Willow are already scared of him as it is. Molly, who actually likes Jake and Jake LOVES her, has started acting spooky and timid around him, because he's just so loud and arrogant (he sees her and he thunders over to her and then hops to a stop, slamming all his feet in front of her. Then when she turns and bolts, Jake takes off after her, all legs going in every direction, his body zigging and zagging and crashing about into the walls, etc. You get the idea. And while he's doing that, Buffy and Willow are taking offense and chasing after him. It's like a little circus running around the house). And it does get super annoying when Jake is squealing at all hours of the day because the kitty flavour of the month is refusing to play with him (she's hiding under a table or is hiding on the kitchen counter). With the squealing comes thunder, as he prances around in circles and hops up and down, sometimes making a lot of noise as he steps on a bowl or plate or whatever and sends it sailing and spinning and clattering and rattling. Oy. Jake isn't a constant-cat-chasing machine, but he's a constant-cat-watching machine. And once the cat gets tired of being stared at, she walks away, which gets Jake's knickers in a bunch and he all but chases after her, not to chase HER to but simply catch up, but like I said, he's loud, and the cat will take off running. *sigh*

[Allie Oop]

Lots of good advice here (as usual). One thing, most dogs who are very "interested" in cats, often do not really stop being "interested" in them. They learn that they are not allowed to chase them, catch them, etc. and behave appropriately, but that interest may not really go away. Allie learned right from day one at our house that chasing our cat was absolutely, positively not permitted and that kitty was Supreme Ruler of the Universe. However, Allie is still very keen to watch, follow (stalk) and observe the SRofU. Allie is a superb mouser and birder (unfortunately) and I know that the possibility for disaster is still there. The cat and the dog can now settle down on the bed together and seem to get along just fine, but I am always alert to the fact that a running cat is a major temptation and watch very closely.

[Lunar]

I really REALLY wish we had gotten Zeeke as a pup - I think it would have been much easier to train him to leave the cats alone. I know no dog is too old, but at 86lbs and with an attitude of the same size he is extremely difficult to dissuade from doing something he is obsessed with doing. Unfortunately we just manage the situation, we never really fixed it - one cat avoids him in the cat-safe room (baby gate), the other one ignores him until he gets bored. But he will chase either if they run. He doesn't hurt them, though - he doesn't even grab them, he actually JABS them with his nose (mouth closed). He just likes to get a rise out of them, I think. In three years he's never actually hurt either cat, though he himself has gotten a few scratches.

 

And yes, going after each other is what would cause me to get physical. I'm not above a few good swats for big bad behaviors.

[Beth G]

My last dog, Reilly that I had for 11 yrs, would actually help me, to raise kittens that I found.

She was wonderful with cats of all ages.

 

Now Popcorn is good with cats too, but Pepper shows way too much interest in them, and tries to chase any ferals she can that get into our yard. I honestly think that if she caught one that she would probably hurt one.

 

However, I found out a few years ago that I am actually allergic to cats so we don't live with any cats anymore.

So at least I don't have to worry about that.

[painted_ponies]

Things are far more peaceable in the wild kingdom this morning.

 

Friday night, Scorp, who is DH's favorite critter, was sitting on the arm of the sofa next to him when Faith lunged up from the floor like the shark going after poor Chrissy in "Jaws". Purely out of reflex, DH put his hand up to deflect her and wound up sending Faith sprawling across the floor.

 

So what did little Miss Hardhead learn from that? One mustn't go after Scorp when Daddy is near. However, it might still be ok to go after Clawdia if only Mommy's around. I disabused her of this notion by lifting her off her feet and giving her a good scruff-shaking while thundering at her what an awful miscreant she was.

 

Far from wilting, she thought about it a few seconds, then picked herself up, trotted over to me, and gave me little "I'm sorry" puppy kisses on the chin till she was sure I'd forgiven her.

 

Last night, I happened to walk into the living room and find her curled up on one end of the sofa and Scorp sleeping on the other end. But even though the lion appears to be lying down with the lamb, or something like that , I'm still keeping an eye on things.