Puppy 'hoods'

[KrisK]

DH was watching a programme the other night with Stanley Coren. (author of How to Speak Dog, The Intelligence of Dogs, etc) Coren was discussing how important it is for a puppy to remain with its littermates/mom until at least 8 weeks of age. He said it was during those last couple of weeks that puppies learned bite inhibition, proper 'puppy' manners, etc.

I took Jazz home at 8 weeks old and have had no experience with younger pups at all. However, I believe Cricket was removed from her littermates at 6 weeks and we think Dusty BA is a product of a puppy mill. Cricket has always been fearful (but getting better, I must say!) and Dusty has little bite inhibition and can be quite unpredictable with the other dogs at times.

I am curious. Is this observation by Coren what you have experienced as breeders and/or rescuers?

[BayouBC]

Pith is the only one of my personal dogs that left "mom" before 8 weeks. He didn't end up with me until about 12 weeks, but if you go by the paperwork the original owners got from the pet store, he had left his mom by 6 weeks. He had at least one littermate with him at the pet store. And by the time he was 12 weeks old, he'd already been rehomed at least once since being bought from the pet store...then he was surrendered to my vet.

 

He's actually just fine with other dogs and seems to read "doggy language" pretty well. However, he does have continuing problems with fear aggression with people (though he's a LOT better than he once was), and he's just all around "quirky". It's hard to say how much of that was being seperated from his mom and most of his littermates, and how much of it might have been his breeding (from researching, it wasn't a puppy mill, but a farmer that just occasionally had a litter and sold them) or even just how much he changed hands at a young age. From his paper work and what I was told, he went from "home" at the farm to an intermediary location where he received his first vet care to a long trip to Maryland to a pet store to his first home to his next home to being surrendered to the vet...all from about 6 weeks to 12 weeks. That could rightly have addled his poor little brain.

 

In general, though, from experience and my own opinions, best case scenario is that puppies stay with mom and their littermates until 8 weeks. If that's not necessarily possible for some reason, I think that puppies can still do pretty well if they leave mom at 6-7 weeks if they stay with their littermates. Puppies will still usually learn things like bite inhibition and doggy play, etc from their littermates, even if mom's not around anymore.

 

And if you HAVE to raise a puppy away from mom and littermates from 5-7 weeks on...socialization, Socialization, SOCIALIZATION. Getting them around other, puppy-friendly dogs is a must so they can learn how to interact with other dogs. Finding some where with puppy classes or puppy play dates (where you know the other pups have their vaccines) are great for that too.

[Dixie_Girl]

Both Jackson and Skip's breeders took pups from mom at 6wks. and left them just with litter mates till 7wks. then on to new homes. However, with Skips litter Bill had some things come up and I didn't get him til 8wks. Both are fine around other people/dogs, but Skip is a lot more fearful of weird stuff than Jackson is. Could just be his personality, who knows? Pups/dogs are like people, you can't just say, "do this, and they will turn out like this". Dogs that have had the most horrendous beginnings, turn out to be really great dogs, dogs that had the "perfect" beginnings turn out weird. But unless they have "bad" wiring in their head, I think most probs a dog has can be worked through enough to live with. Jackson will always be a very friendly, bomb-proof dog. Skip, well it will always depend on circumstances with him.

[GoldenCollie]

Pups/dogs are like people, you can't just say, "do this, and they will turn out like this"

 

I absolutely agree!

 

I got my lab when he was 10 weeks old... he was very nippy and mouthed lots!!!

I got meg, my BC at 7 weeks old... She very very rarely mouths, bites or nips me!!!

 

Both were with their siblings up until the age i got them. Both are very sociable with other dogs, and nice and confident.

 

I think at the end of the day, the thing which really matters most is socilisation! Start it as soon as you get the puppy and it carrys on for life! A dog can never have to much socilisation!!

[Carson Crazies]

Well, I don't know about Ginger and Zippy.

 

June was left with her litter plenty of time and is very normal as far as people and other dogs go. I understand she was well socialized as a puppy also. She does have some thunderphobia and some quirks, but all in all she's pretty normal.

 

Bree was seperated from her litter (best I can tell) at about 5-6 weeks, and she has *lots* of screws loose. On the other hand, she was my first puppy and I didn't socialize her as well as I now know I should have, so between her random accidental breeding, her leaving the litter early, and my failings in her raising, it's hard to say - I think all of the above had a hand in her development. She has very little impulse control, and while she gets along with most other dogs, she doesn't back down and is the quickest of my dogs to resort to fighting. She can be timid with new people, and slightly pushy in the same vein. She's a resource guarder, but only from dogs.

 

I took Nick at seven weeks. He's pretty confident, and has yet to meet a person or dog that was a stranger. He's pretty confident in new situations, and is great with other dogs and people. He's been drug around all kinds of places.

[Bordercentrics]

I just finished reading Coren's new book, Why Does My Dog Act That Way? - A Complete Guide to Your Dog's Personality. It is very readable and interesting. Yes, it is much nicer for the new owner if Mama has taught your new puppy everything it needs to know about getting along with people and other dogs. But they can still learn. Lack of proper socialization causes far more problems, I think. Sometimes it can be overcome, sometimes not. It depends on how long it lasted and how old the dog is. And I have had pups who stayed with their Mom and litter for the optimum time and still were mouthy. They know it doesn't work on the other dogs, but it still works with people! We still have to teach our new dogs/pups the rules!

 

Kathy Robbins

[bc4pack]

From my experience the 8 wk theory is to give pups a chance to develop dog-dog communication...pups taken younger can be sorely lacking in doggie manners IF not exposed to other appropriate dogs, ie the older savvy bitch that can reprimand a pup. The whole bite inhibition thing can and does transfer to humans, all depends... Let's not confuse ourselves by saying a puppy has 'no bite inhibition' while they are still TEETHING ... all pups are 'mouthy' and they are still learning...that is the whole point. JMHO,

 

Remember too that dogs don't Hvae to socialize with other dogs to have a good life.The key is to REALLY take advantage of the critical socialization period,which unfortunately for many dogs is not the case...ask folks dealing with adoptees that are terrified of men.

 

Tara