Disturbing Evidence

[bcluver4life]

First of all, your whole story isn't quite put together right, as many people have pointed out. Secondly, Shakespeare isn't 6th grade material. Not something an 11 or 12 year old would be able to comprehend. And third, if you did learn it in grade 6, it's surprising that you forgot it in only 2 or 3 years... You must have a pretty bad memory I suppose.

 

It could have been 7th or 8th grade then. I just know that I had music classes throughout middle school as connections. I never did pay much attention in those classes. To boring to me. Most likely why I failed them too.

[Katelynn & Gang]

Okay, we know where Jake is from. Where is Jessie from?

[bcluver4life]

Okay, we know where Jake is from. Where is Jessie from?

 

Jessie is form Dual Oaks Farm. Everyone on the other board just told me not to give out breeder's names.

[Katelynn & Gang]

Umm, do you not wonder why they said not to give out names?

 

I hope I can trust you are spaying and neutering those dogs?

 

If you have AIM, I'd love to chat.

 

Katelynn

[runningdogs-]

First of all, your whole story isn't quite put together right, as many people have pointed out. Secondly, Shakespeare isn't 6th grade material. Not something an 11 or 12 year old would be able to comprehend. And third, if you did learn it in grade 6, it's surprising that you forgot it in only 2 or 3 years... You must have a pretty bad memory I suppose.

Yuck shakespeare. Do you have to bring that up Considering Hamlet is one of the most difficult of Shakespears works, I seriously doubt you learned it in middle school. I'm in 12th grade in Honors English and we are "only" doing Macbeth. Which I hate by the way

[bcluver4life]

Umm, do you not wonder why they said not to give out names?

 

I hope I can trust you are spaying and neutering those dogs?

 

If you have AIM, I'd love to chat.

 

Katelynn

 

I'm sending you my AIM screen name. . XP

[bcluver4life]

My Dad ask that I post this in reply to this thread... Hopefully it clears things up. I'm way to confused with all these questions.

 

My name is Jay Murphy and I am Jennifer Elise Murphy’s father. I am no writer as you will be able to tell in this post but I think it is time a few things are said here.

 

Has she posted on more than one site for multiple things? Yes, and some where incorrect and not appropriate One was listing Jake as a stud dog. If you knew Jake that would be almost funny. He is 11 months old and not old enough to be a stud. This is something that will not be done. The other ad’s she had listed were when she was looking for a puppy. I knew she was looking for a puppy and last time I checked there is nothing wrong with this process.

 

As far as other things she has done is as follows. If these are incorrect please tell me how.

 

She will look at Craig's List and other sites for dogs that owners no longer want or can keep. She will contact these owners and has 3 different times taken the dogs and bring them here until she can find a good home for them. One such ad was for 2 Golden Retrievers that the owners moved to Florida and did not take the dogs. They had them in a pen in the back yard with a family member coming over each afternoon to feed and water. We went down to check out the dogs and brought them home with us. They were matted and covered in fleas and ticks. We washed them purchased Frontline and cared for the dogs for about two weeks or so and she advertised that we had them and found a rescue in Alpharetta to take the dogs. She would not let anyone else have the dogs except for the rescue. Why? I could not at that time have them cared for by a vet or have them spayed or neutered. They were 3 years old and had at least 3 litters of puppies. The rescue picked them up and found they had heart worms and treated them for heart worms and had them spayed and neutered and found them good homes.

 

The other two dogs were a border collie mix dog that the family no longer wanted. We picked her up and had her once again for about a week until Elise found a home for her. She went to a very nice family who wanted a pet. She came with full shot records and had been spayed already.

 

The next one was a male border collie names Max. He was 5 years old and living in a condo in Alpharetta. Elise could not stand the thought of a Border collie in a condo with no land to run on. Once again the dog had been neutered and had all shot records up to date. She found him a home in Mississippi on a 40 acre farm with horses and the man wanted a border collie to have on the farm and to ride with him on trips with his horses. Older couple and a great home.

 

She has had a couple of other dogs she wanted to get but they were outside Atlanta and was not able to get them here so they never made it here. She has tried to find them homes so people could pick them up where they were located but never had much luck.

 

Now here at my home we have 2 Border Collies (Jake and Jessie) a Golden Retriever (Blaze 6 years.) Jake is 11 months old and Jessie is 9 weeks old. I do not think they could be bred. Blaze has been corrected so they will never have puppies. We have had all of our dogs from the time they were puppies. Elise has never been a part of any breeding of any animals. I admit I bred my Miniature Schnauzers back in the 80’s but that is all we have been a part of. Elise was not even born at that time.

 

Elise is not a breeder nor has she taken in an animal to breed them. As I have read all of the postings listed people are making things up as it goes along. One person is taking about her posting for a lost cat back in October. Her friend lost her cat and Elise was trying to help find it. I do not think she knew that was a issue in trying to help.

 

I have never seen a group of what I think are adults act like middle school kids. My 14 year old daughter is much more mature than most of what I have read. If you all feel she needs to stop helping animals then say so. She has told you she no longer wants to breed animals it is something she wanted to do for a short time. That quickly changed as I took her to many shelters and homes to see animals locked away.

 

Sometimes in raising a child you need to point in the right direction and let her find the answers on her own. I think she has found it here with helping animals find homes from locations that no longer want them. She learns more about the people taking the animals than these “RESCUES” sitting on the sidewalk at PetsMart handing out animals to anyone that walks up and says they want a dog or cat. She is 14 years old and a freshman in high school. Lighten up adults.

[SincereArtisan]

I cannot believe what I'm reading from you guys. Here is a 14yo girl, who not only had the courage to come forward and DEFEND herself from your accusations, but she also stuck around to answer ANY and ALL questions you ll have to ask.

 

Whats more, it appears as though this girl has been rescuing border collies who would have otherwise been put down, pawned off on craigslist, or dumped. Who cares that the rescue documents weren't 100% legal because she is only 14??? These dogs found HOMES! FOREVER HOMES. These dogs found something other than a gas chamber, for christs sake...I would rather see a BC pulled from deaths row just in time and find it's way into a home where its going to get the love and care it needs rather than spend my time wondering about the legalities of the whole procedure. Its not like she's out there stealing dogs out of people's back yards. Its not like she's harvesting them from breeders. And lets all keep in mind, she IS 14, hell my stories weren't all straight back when I was 14, we're not all perfect at 14, but hey, it looks like she might be on the right track and pretty mature for her age to come forth and defend herself like so, and be so willing to answer all your questions...

 

And instead of guiding this girl, giving her helpful suggestions, being a GOOD community, you guys are nit-picking her stories, trying to find all the tiniest loop-holes, just anything you can acuse this girl of. SURE, some of her stories seem a little odd, a little off kilter, but she's 14. And from the looks of things, she's at least out there doing something for dogs in need. Or trying...

 

Keep in mind you guys are talking to a kid here. Accusations, assumptions, pointing fingers is not going to do nearly the good that wholesome advice, a little education and a couple nudges in the right direction. This IS the future we're dealing with here. Take a little care and consideration, don't be so high and mighty with yourselves....this is just the kind of mentality on these boards that drives me nuts sometimes.

[sandra s.]

Very well said, SA. I'm glad it's not just me who feels sick about what this has turned into.

 

Answering all those questions is not the same thing as protesting too much. And when did an unexcused absence from school become such a horrible crime? Heck, hand me that stripey prisoner's uniform then, I did "worse" things at school....and as far as I know, it has nothing at all to do with dogs.

 

I know you all mean well, but I think SA is absolutely right.

[Eileen Stein]

As of yesterday morning, I considered that the evidence presented by the OP and subsequent posters was sufficient to raise serious questions about bcluvr4life, and that it was appropriate to leave this thread open, with the hope that those questions would be answered one way or the other. Rescuers and those who deal with puppy mills are a suspicious lot, and have every reason to be. There is no question that there are people who pose as rescuers to obtain dogs which they then sell or breed. It is also beyond doubt that the internet provides a handy vehicle and screen for that kind of activity. It's very hard to know for sure who you are dealing with on the internet. I personally have had people claim to me, falsely, that their computer was being used by a child without their knowledge to put up certain posts or to send certain emails that they themselves had actually written. It's only prudent to keep in mind the possibility of misrepresentation, and to look for the best evidence possible to resolve any questions. I hope that Elise and her father can appreciate why this is so.

 

By last night, I think the thread had developed in such a way that it began to seem highly likely that Elise was in fact a teenager, and that the contradictions and discrepancies in her posts and her accounts could be explained by her age and self-image. I personally believe that to be the case, and it appears to me that pretty much everyone else does too. I'm glad that it turned out to be so, and that full discussion proved to be a way of uncovering the truth. And I hope everyone can feel a certain amount of understanding of why the different parties acted as they did.

[Guest kimdw248]

Maybe it would be advantageous for bcluver to withdraw her stud advertisement on the quality dog site since she is no longer interested in breeding.

 

Just a thought...

[bcluver4life]

Maybe it would be advantageous for bcluver to withdraw her stud advertisement on the quality dog site since she is no longer interested in breeding.

 

Just a thought...

 

I tired to do that yesterday but I can't remember my login name and password to the stud site. I'm not getting it through e-mail either.

[czrabbit]

Maybe it would be advantageous for some heartfelt apologies to this young girl and her father who have been so maligned in the past 24 hours. The accusations were shameful and ugly. It was like watching a Pit Bull attack.

[Betsy]

Wow, I haven't checked the boards in a few days and just read this thread all the way through. I'm glad it turned out the way it did.

 

But I do have to take exception to this statment...

 

...She learns more about the people taking the animals than these “RESCUES” sitting on the sidewalk at PetsMart handing out animals to anyone that walks up and says they want a dog or cat...

 

The resuce I volunteer with (Nebraska Border Collie Rescue) is one of those rescues you might see at PetSmart. It is a highly reputable rescue. We go to PetSmart to gain visibility in the community. We do NOT adopt dogs out while we are there. Any interested person would have to go through the same process all others have to - lengthly application, personal references, vet references, meeting the dog(s), home evaluation, etc.

 

I understand you don't like the way your daughter was treated on here, that you feel she was judged inappropriately on her actions. Please don't judge the legitimate rescues you see at PetSmart, especially when you don't even know their actions.

[ShoresDog]

I disagree that this thread has been "inappropriate." The clearly-stated philosophy of this board opposes backyard breeders and puppymills. bcluver4life's posts suggested that was what she was up to. The posts both on boards and on Craigslist suggested that an unlicensed sub rosa rescue might be diverting rescue dogs to breeding. I still don't understand if "Tripp Line Team" is something made up or something real. Even under the most generous interpretation, the posts were not truthful, e.g., advertising "Tripp Line's Viva la Bam" (Jake) from Tuck Everlasting Farms with health certificate standing at stud for $500.00.

 

To paraphrase Barry Goldwater, "Extremism in the defence of border collies is no sin."

 

If bcluver4life would like to participate in these boards, and they really are the best dog boards around, then going forward let's have a commitment to honesty.

 

As much as I enjoy the board format, I do wonder if a few telephone calls would sometimes untangle these messes more quickly!

 

[Thanks, Betsy, for standing up for the Petsmart-Rescue connection. I really like Petsmart's commitment to adopting homeless pets rather than selling puppies from puppy mills. They really have their heads screwed on right -- for little critters like mice etc., they only sell one sex in each store.]

[Betsy]

Oh, I don't think this thread was inappropriate either. But I'm guessing Elise's father feels she was judge inappropriatly. Since he knows the whole story and her true actions, compared to what we on the boards know (from her pieced together posts), he probably thinks we're a bunch of...well, who knows what. Truth be told, her actual actions (according to her father's words) were great (outside of pursuing breeding initially without researching it first, but that's JMHO), especially since she did "see the light" about all the currently homeless dogs and changed direction.

 

The initial info we were given does look sketchy. It just does. And I think these boards ARE here to keep everyone informed about those BYBs, puppy mills etc, and individuals who exploit dogs.

[sandyleew]

I feel like I need to reply, since I am the one that started this thread. First off, before I posted this information, I pm'd bcluver4life and asked her to explain what was going on. I did not hear from her. I waited for several hours after she received my pm. Only after I posted, she answered my pm, but with obvious lies. I feel it is important for people to know who they are dealing with. She promised to pull dogs from the rescue site, but then cut out at the last minute, endangering the dogs' lives. She played along like her and her father were going to pay the pull fees and take the dog all the way til the end. She told people that she called shelters and dogs were adopted, when in actuality they were not. She posted just a few months back, with a different username, looking for a dog to breed. These are red flags. There are still very many inconsistencies in her stories and a lot of things that just do not add up. How do I even know that her father wrote that letter? I would have felt a lot better about this if she would've just come clean instead of inventing more lies. I still do not feel that a child should be posing as a rescue organization on a rescue website. This is misleading to people who are looking to rehome their dogs. She has admitted that she can not afford vet care or pull fees, therefore, should leave the rescuing to others who have the means. Like I said before, if she wants to volunteer somewhere, that would be a great place to start. I don't know about the rest of you, but I do not appreciate being lied to again and again.

[sandyleew]

And for the record, I do not feel I owe anyone any apologies. Everything I posted was backed up by a link to another website. All I did was post research that I found online. She is the one who asked for a dog to breed and posted her male dog for stud on a breeder website. She was the one who posted dogs up for adoption that were not hers to give away. SHe is also the one who posted as a rescue on craigslist asking people to give her their dogs. I understand that she may just be a child, but she should think before she posts things online for the world to see.

[Katelynn & Gang]

I talked to Elise for a bit last night. I think she was just over whelmed with all the questions being thrown at her (I didn't even join in because I was all mixed up on what was and wasn't).

 

Yes, everything still doesn't fit (like Tripp Line) but I didn't question her about it. Shes young and who cares if she isn't breeding?

 

She does care about the dogs she has and doesn't believe in breeding. From what I understand, both Jessie and Jake will be fixed. She wants to rescue and that is great. I'd rather see young people rescue then breed questionable dogs and I am sure we can all agree on this.

 

I will stay in touch with Elise, as we both love Border Collies and I am sure there is a lot we can talk about.

 

Katelynn

[czrabbit]

"......she can not afford vet care or pull fees, therefore, should leave the rescuing to others who have the means"....."she should think before she posts things online for the world to see..."

 

 

I'll take that as it's written, and not offer anymore financial assistance to anyone, nor I suppose, should I expect anyone else to ask for it.

[clara]

Hi!

 

I just joined this board (I'm an avid reader on the rescue board) to follow this thread, and have found the rest of the board to be a fantastic resource.

 

I just wanted to support what sandyleew posted. I thought it was just a frustrating process trying to get a straight answer from this girl, and that she was undeniably misleading in many of her previous posts, dating all the way back to November. I hope she's learned something about how complicated it can be to sustain fiction, and that making friends in any community, even an online one, isn't going to last long if you're a liar. Someone WILL figure it out eventually (my optimism showing itself!), and you won't be as welcome as you were before. JMO.

 

BTW, great board you guys! Lots of great reading here, I think I'll go lurk and maybe learn something useful to benefit my own dogs.

 

Clara

[czrabbit]

This IS a great site, as is the border collie rescue board.

 

There are, without a doubt some unscrupulous people online and they may be perverts and liars or people with greedy intentions as well as those who brag and embellish in an attempt to make themselves look better to people they don't know and try to win friends and gain attention. There are also some very kind and generous and well meaning people who may at times lie and embellish or sign onto a website just for fun and I can't honestly say that if I was 14 I mightn't do the same thing and sometimes it's confusing and almost impossible to tell the difference between the really bad guys and a kid. Having said that, (and I apologize for the run-on sentence), I can't know if someone named Sandyleew or Mary or Debbie are actually 80 year old men named Bob Krawtz living in Florida or who they actually say they are, but if I grilled them with the vigor of Johnny Cochran and came up empty, I think I'd try to make amends, that's all.

[BayouBC]

This IS a great site, as is the border collie rescue board.

 

There are, without a doubt some unscrupulous people online and they may be perverts and liars or people with greedy intentions as well as those who brag and embellish in an attempt to make themselves look better to people they don't know and try to win friends and gain attention. There are also some very kind and generous and well meaning people who may at times lie and embellish or sign onto a website just for fun and I can't honestly say that if I was 14 I mightn't do the same thing and sometimes it's confusing and almost impossible to tell the difference between the really bad guys and a kid. Having said that, (and I apologize for the run-on sentence), I can't know if someone named Sandyleew or Mary or Debbie are actually 80 year old men named Bob Krawtz living in Florida or who they actually say they are, but if I grilled them with the vigor of Johnny Cochran and came up empty, I think I'd try to make amends, that's all.

 

Very well said.

[nancy]

I know that on the older version of these boards, I had all my info, including my web site with family photos and even our family cookbook.

 

If anyone wants to check me out or ask personal questions, that's fine with me. And I will answers as clearly as an English major and technical editor can. The only errors you'll find are from my aged "fat-fingering'.

 

And I have a spayed BC mix and a spayed border cat. I do volunteer for driving rescues if I can. But I don't claim to be what I'm not or give untraceable references.

 

Were I 14, my parents would not be allowing me to get into such a flumustication. I'd have been in school or doing my homework. Same was true for my kids. And same is now true for my grandkids.

 

BTW, we may all be shoved into the moot category. We all love Shakespeare and have since grade school. So Philistines and we may not agree on other issues as well.

[Guest kimdw248]

"Yes, and some where incorrect and not appropriate One was listing Jake as a stud dog. If you knew Jake that would be almost funny. He is 11 months old and not old enough to be a stud. Jake is 11 months old and Jessie is 9 weeks old. I do not think they could be bred.This is something that will not be done. The other ad’s she had listed were when she was looking for a puppy."

 

If they were so incorrect and inappropriate, why is her father's name listed on the breed site?

It would appear that he knew about this since anyone calling would have asked to speak with "Jay". As to not being old enough to breed, as a mature adult certainly her father would know that we are referring to the dogs "ability" to be breed since it is not altered as of yet-and Jake IS of age to be altered. Some of the other ads were for an unaltered dog she was looking to rehome (unaltered) and other dogs she sought out to advertise. Apparently her father is unaware of all the posts we are referring to.

 

"She will look at Craig's List and other sites for dogs that owners no longer want or can keep."

 

She wasn't just LOOKING at Craigs list, she was actively posting to it for various reasons.

 

 

 

"She has had a couple of other dogs she wanted to get but they were outside Atlanta and was not able to get them here so they never made it here. "

 

http://bcrescue.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t...asc&start=0

Yes, and she led us all to believe that she was saving Buddy-there was someone who told her they could pull the dog and help with transport. A short period of time later, she proudly (and boldly) posted pictures of her purchased bc pup.

 

 

"My 14 year old daughter is much more mature than most of what I have read"

 

Which is why he allows her to post/browse the vampire site...because she is SO mature that things like cutting, prostitution, masochistic rituals etc...are obviously things mature children engage in these days with parental consent

 

 

Nancy states: "Were I 14, my parents would not be allowing me to get into such a flumustication. I'd have been in school or doing my homework. Same was true for my kids. And same is now true for my grandkids."

 

Thank you Nancy...I am sure you comment is reflective of what most of us are thinking!