CKC and Border Collie recognition

[Northof49]

No, the problem is that by admitting the border collie to the CKC (aside from the conflict with the APA) means that the border collie is eligible to compete in ALL events, including conformation. Further, the entire application procee to become a Miscellaneous Listed breed seems sketchy:

 

The way this application was made is that a couple of obedience competitors filled out the requisite paperwork, asked the CBCA to support the application (CBCA indicated their opposition), affixed appropriate postage, and now the inclusion of the border collie in the show ring in Canada is being voted upon by the CKC members. A rather odd way to get things done, no?

 

I do know when the obedience people started this procedure the discussions with CKC it was to get the Border Collie back into the performance events and there was no mention by the CKC that they would be going into conformation as well. The applicants were under the impression that conformation was not on the table. That could possibly have been a miscommunication between the two parties - the applicants assuming that conformation was not going to be a part of it, and the CKC assuming the applicants knew it would be all inclusive. I know the CBCA has no problem with the Border Collie being eligible for CKC performance events and had indicated that. However, we all know that CKC will not allow the request for the Border Collie to only be in performance events only, and thus we were where we are right now.

 

Unfortunately, when the CKC made the decision to allow breeds from other Canadian's registry to compete in their events without having to be registered with the CKC, they should have recognized and accepted the fact that the legal registering body for any of those breeds should be acknowleged and any concerns and recommendations as to how they should be allowed to participate in CKC event be respected and honoured.

[Eileen Stein]

Rosanne, I certainly don't speak for the CBCA, but I think the CBCA would not be opposed to border collies being accepted for participation in CKC performance events. What they are opposed to is their becoming eligible for showing in CKC conformation.

[Rosanne]

I undestand that, Eileen, I was just curious what the defining, legal-type difference was between registering with a sports-only registry, and an all-inclusive registry. Since it does indeed become a legality in Canada - whereas here we have no laws of the sort, so it really doesn't matter where you register your dog, at least in the eyes of the law.

 

If the Pedigree Act defines registering as keeping record of pedigrees then I guess CKC couldn't do that, could they? It depends on the definition in the government. I doubt the government has a phrase that says confirmation showing itself is considered registration for the purpose of breeding, but rather something to do with the record keeping and making breeding recommendations.

 

My question, I guess, has more to do with the government and the Pedigree Act, than solely on CBCA's hopes and wishes. That's OK.

Anybody hear where this is at? Results?

[Katelynn & Gang]

Even if the CKC gets this passed and their Border Collies can be shown in conformation, can they not do the same as the ABCA the remove the dogs that earn their CH. because it underminds their whole registry?

[Rosanne]

Here's a thought: just let them register their own new breed - the OZ BC. All must prove they are descended of dogs from Australia (shouldn't be hard). And once they are registered CKC, they are immediately de-registered ABCA because gosh, they aren't the same breed!

[Northof49]

Even if the CKC gets this passed and their Border Collies can be shown in conformation, can they not do the same as the ABCA the remove the dogs that earn their CH. because it underminds their whole registry?

 

 

Canadian registries cannot make up their own rules about registration of any kind of animal, so no, they cannot do that. THe only way we can de-register a dog is if the information provided to register it in the first place was false (i.e. the breeder lied about the dam/sire) and proof can be provided to that effect, i.e. DNA test results, etc.

 

CBCA originally wanted to be able to refuse to register Border Collie who are registered with a Kennel Club, but that is illegal under the Animal Pedigree Act as well, so that is why they created Section A and Section B dogs.

[Katelynn & Gang]

CBCA originally wanted to be able to refuse to register Border Collie who are registered with a Kennel Club, but that is illegal under the Animal Pedigree Act as well, so that is why they created Section A and Section B dogs.

 

Okay, then why not add a Section C for CKC registered dogs and then a Section D for CKC registered dogs with their CH. lol

 

Katelynn

[Rosanne]

So. . .they couldn't conceivabley make a rule that progeny of dogs who receive a CH. are not registerable?

 

I guess the idea being that if a dog is purebred, and there's only one registry, they can't deny it registration?

[Northof49]

So. . .they couldn't conceivabley make a rule that progeny of dogs who receive a CH. are not registerable?

 

I guess the idea being that if a dog is purebred, and there's only one registry, they can't deny it registration?

 

 

No they can't. Personal preferences cannot be entertained, and they can only deny registration to dogs whose paperwork is not in proper order, or proof is provided that they have been registered illegally.

 

That is what happens in the States Jane Doe gets mad at John Smith about some disagreement about their breed, and starts up her own registry, and doesn't allow any dogs from John Smith or his lines to be registered with her registry etc. Then she gets mad because Jack Spratt's dogs are winning at most of the trials (whatever breed is involved), so his dogs can't be registered with her registry, and gets in a rule put in place that only dogs registered with her registry are eligible to compete at certain trials, etc

[Bill Fosher]

I spoke with a Canadian sheep farmer friend of mine tonight, and he's thinking that the avenue to block this is the ministry of agriculture in Ottowa. I'm wondering if those of us from the USA should write to the ministry about the important of the Canadian working Border collie as an integral part of the continental gene pool?