Training multiple sports

[Root Beer]

I actually don't think the final result IS the same. The difference is that your method is dependant on you being present to give the counter command to his counter surfing. All fine and dandy if you are always present. I would have set it up so he got a big surprise when he counter surfed.... mouse traps under a sheet of newsprint (so the dog soes not get hurt) and when he triggered them, he got instant negative reinforcement for jumping on the counter. You might have heard the phrase from Jack Knox clinics to let the sheep train the dog. That means set up circumstances so the sheep educate the dog how to behave. Let sheep break out of a corner, and when the dog races off in a direction to cover, use that directional command to teach it. Kind of like descriptive praise. (Move the food over the puppy's head, as their butt hits the floor, say good sit. ) I am just using the counter to tell the dog not to jump up. My way will eliminate the counter surfing. My way teaches self control. I would bet your way eliminates it when you are there but he will do it when you are not there.

 

That's an interesting perspective.

 

Why is it then, that my other three have such good self control when it comes to the counters?

 

All three, once upon a time, would have helped themselves to anything on a counter - when I was present or not. All three now can be left alone for extensive periods of time and they never bother a thing on the counters - or the tables. I have accidentally left packages of raw meat on the counter after coming home from shopping, gotten distracted, and gone outside for a while and come in to find one or two of them with all four on the floor looking imploringly at the package that is easily in their reach and could have been scarfed down well within the time I was gone - and they were not told to "leave it" or to "stay" - they made the correct choice to wait until I came along to give permission (or not, in this case!). This has happened a few times and I never used corrections with them when they were younger and used to try to go for those things - I taught "off" in a very neutral manner. The result has been a very nice self-control - one that extends out into situations beyond the home. The only "con" that I have found with this method is that it takes time and discipline on my part to get the results that I want, but I don't personally have a problem with that, so it works for me.

 

Time will tell with Dean, but I am very optimistic about using this methodology with him over the long haul.

[Pipedream Farm]

Why is it then, that my other three have such good self control when it comes to the counters?

 

Because each dog has it's own personality and own level of desire to please you. Some would die trying to please and would do so once they know what pleases you even if you're not present. Others are a bit more independently minded and may only please when you're present. In your example of 4 dogs, you may be fortunate to only have dogs with a high desire to please you.

 

Mark

[kelpiegirl]

I have one dog who is a perpetual counter surfer. I will be on the computer, and here the sound of two feet leaving the floor. THen I say "Kylie" in a low voice and then boof! her two front feet are back on the floor. She got some good stuff there and that was a BIG lesson for her. No other dogs do this. This is the one that works hard to please me most of the time too. Go figure.

Julie

 

 

Because each dog has it's own personality and own level of desire to please you. Some would die trying to please and would do so once they know what pleases you even if you're not present. Others are a bit more independently minded and may only please when you're present. In your example of 4 dogs, you may be fortunate to only have dogs with a high desire to please you.

 

Mark

[Pipedream Farm]

Julie,

 

This is why I suspect Marilyn advocates letting the "counter train the dog". I also prefer this method.

 

Mark

[Root Beer]

In a way, the reality of the need to train home behavior, such as curtailing counter surfing, ties in very nicely with the original discussion, and kind of answers my question in an unexpected way.

 

We all expect our dogs to multitask, so to speak - regardless of the training methods that suit us and work for our own dogs. Some are working on good manners at home and the ability to do stockwork at the same time. Some are working on good manners at home and the ability to perform at a sport at the same time. Others are working on good manners at home and the ability to do therapy work or search and rescue or many, many other things.

 

Based on that, I think that training for multiple sports, right along with the basic home manners, is a worth a shot - particularly with this dog, who has already showed a lot of promise of potential to differentiate between activities and circumstances.

 

Of course, if Dean ever gets up on the counter and starts to dance a jig instead of searching vigilantly for the remains of dinner that are no longer there, I might have to rethink that conclusion.

[Pipedream Farm]

Kristine,

 

It seems like the more you teach them the more they want to learn and the easier they learn new things. Also the younger you start teaching them the easier it is for them to learn new things (assuming you can get them to focus longer than a second).

 

Mark

[MrSnappy]

That's an interesting perspective.

 

Why is it then, that my other three have such good self control when it comes to the counters?

 

I can't tell you why, but I can tell you that my dogs would never and have never counter surfed, and I am by no means a permissive trainer. From the get go, any dog that so much as looked at a counter was told off and so they don't and wouldn't. The cat food was in plain sight for a long time and they never so much as touched it, nor did they ever go surfing for kitty treasures in the cat box either. It was simply never allowed and so they did not do it. My dogs understand there are consequences to their actions and experience has taught them that there are no benefits to disobeying.

 

Mr. Woo is different. He is not a border collie and is not as bright as a border collie, and also not nearly as willing to simply follow a directive because I issued it. He would never counter surf, but he has eaten cat food and poked in the cat box. I moved the food and the box so he can't do that. He is more of a challenge to work with because he is motivated by himself and that's about it. He is a delightful dog, but I miss the border collie brain.

 

My dogs have competed in multiple "sports" at the same time, but I don't aim to be the *best* at any of those sports. I let the dogs dictate what they participate in by what they enjoy and what they are good at. If I wanted a dog to REALLy excel I would likely stick with one activity and work at it hard. However, as in all training, my dogs understand that a command is a command is a command and that it is to be followed - whether that command be jump or hit it, just as much as "don't step off the sidewalk" or "get over here when I call you." I have used a clicker for training some fun behaviours, but always listening is a requisite part of living with me, so my dogs understand there are consequences to not listening.

 

RDM