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First I would like to start by saying;


To anyone that I may of offended on these boards I apoligize.


I came here to seek knowledge that would aid me to make a rather difficult decision due to the circumstances that I found myself in.


It was never my intention to mention the fact that I had built a website for a person who breeds Border Collies with the intent to profit monetarily.


It was however brought to the attention of these boards by the moderator.

I now wish to thank Eileen for doing what she did.

It caused me to face the facts of my reason for being here and to concentrate my time to evaluate the good information that was disseminated to me.

I was naive but my heart was speaking to me and insisted that I put more effort into this then I would normally do when creating a basic website for a client. There are Lives at stake and I must be responsible for my own actions.


Today I made an uninvited and unexpected visit to this "breeder" facilities.

It had been about 1 month since I had been there on an invited visit.

I was shocked at the conditions that I witnessed.

This shock rapidly became absolute outrage and a very deep sense of sadness. As a man I do not cry very often,but what I witnessed and had to do today greatly drained me and I sit here now crying thinking if I had only taken less time to come to this decision then perhaps a very gentle and loving dog might still be alive.


As of now I have shut down this site http://www.awesomebordercollies.com/


I now ask your advice as to what can be done to try to save as many of the dogs as possible.

I feel that all the dogs at this location are in serious jeopardy.


I have no wish to harm this person but I greatly desire to try to help the dogs.

I do not know what step I should take next.

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Ironhorse, I am so sorry for whatever happened! It must really be shocking. If this is something as serious as abuse/serious neglect, you can report it to your local humane society/animal control, and/or ASPCA. And definatly warn people in your area of this person.


*Sigh* Poor dogs.

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You're a big man and have my respect.


If you think the situation was bad enough, you can contact the humane society to report neglect or abuse or whatever the situation was.


I'm sorry you were faced with something that obviously has affected you in such a way.

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God bless you Ironhorse. Call the local ASPCA, Humane Society, some legal action can be taken. Then I would think a rescue group might be able to help once legal action is taken. I am sorry that you had to see it all with your own eyes. It is sad to see what some human beings are capable of doing. You have my respect for looking for yourself. Thank you for shutting down the website. Call in legal animal control.


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When I first arrived at the location I had a great deal of difficultly getting the person to answer her door,I knew that she was there and due to the situation I was actually concerned that something bad may of happened to her,dogs were running loose and the car appeared to have been in an accident. Only when I yelled quite loud several times that if she was there she had better answer her door or I would call 911

she then answered asking what I was doing there,to which I replied I was there to look at the dogs,she replied through the door that she needed to get dressed.I said ok I will be around back looking at the dogs.

I proceeded to the back area where the dogs are being kept and saw the bloated body of this dog;


he had been dead for at least 3 days and was laying partially drug into the woods.

This Dog was the sire to my Lightfoot(the pup in my avatar) and was the reason that i had met this woman 3 years ago.

The stence was horrible and I imediatly confronted her as to what in the hell had happened? I quickly saw that she was in no condition to respond to my questions,she was/is a total mess and needs help that I cannot supply at this time. she just kept hesterically crying and saying it was all her fault. Absolutly correct!

I was in no frame of mind to speak anymore to her at the time without totally loosing my temper,So I asked if she would give me permission to go and bury this animal,with some protest she did agree to at least this,,which at a great deal of Discomfort and the loss of my stomach contents I proceeded to do,not because I wished to hide his body by any means,but to remove a seriously decaying body that was available to the dogs that were loose. I adored this dog back when i met him 3 years ago and had become his friend over the various times that I had seen him,his body deserved at least the respect of being covered with some dirt for the time being.

After doing this,(which took a couple of hours of digging in very hard rocky ground) I again approached the woman and without loosing my temper I stated that the situation was out of control and that she was in no condition to take proper care of the rest of the dogs. She agreed.

I asked her if she wished for me to attempt to seek whatever help I deemed needed to deal with the situation. She agreed at which time I left the premises and drove the 2 1/2 hours home,removed the website,showered and then came to these boards.


I am beside myself emotionally right now as to what step to take,,I would Hate to see all these animals destroyed,But I cannot turn a blind eye to the situation.

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I truely appreciate all the PMs but my emotions are just so frazzled right now I may be abit slow to respond.

And as difficult as it is for me to post public at this time I really feel that this needs to be seen by all.

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How many animals total are we talking about?


As people, we WANT to believe that EVERY human being is a good person and has good intentions. I'm sorry that you had to witness something so tragic. But do not lose faith...these animals are depending on you to help them now by whatever means you can. Try not to think the worst is going to happen to them. I followed your introduction post and the statements that were made to you. It took a lot of willingness to learn more on your part. It took a LOT more courage to step in and do something about it. Ironhorse, keep your chin up and hopefully things will work out for these animals to find happy forever homes.

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approximatly 35 to 40 individuals

ranging in age from about 5 weeks to I would guess the oldest dog to be no more then 5 or 6 years.

this place is located a conciderable distance from my home and my time is limited due to work related issues.

But I know that action has to be taken now.

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so would my best course of action at this time is to contact the humane society?

or should I contact a different organization?

the property where these dogs are curently located is in cedar county missouri,the closest town is Stockton.

Does anyone have contact info for that region?

I am out of my element here folks,never in my wildest dreams would I of imagined that by creating this web site my path would lead me to the position I find myself in right now.

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IronHorse, this must be such a burden on your shoulders right now.


I can only imagine what you must be going through, but please don't get down on yourself. After all, how many other web designers would have even bothered doing all the research you did, or even bothered to visit the place?


I don't think it was a coincidence that you are in this current predicament. You are a good person and I think you were sent to those dogs for a reason. Have faith and be strong.


My prayers are with you.



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Miz; thank you for the contact info,nobody answering the phone right now. I see I can fill out an online abuse report but I believe it would be best to make a person to person call first thing in the morning and take it from there.

I can only pray that this is the best course of action and I am not just causing the destruction of what I see as alot of very good Border Collies.


Odin's Momma; Thank you for your prayers and yes this is a burden on both myself and my wife but we are capable and willing to follow the path that creator puts us on and do what we feel is the right thing.

Normally as a rule I would not investigate or really think much at all about someone who I make a website for as long as I didn't see it as being illegal,however in this case being animal lovers and having bought two dogs from this person a few years ago and being quite satisfied, when I contacted her back in March about getting another dog from her to take the place of one that we lost in a road accident, she had proposed that if I would build her a web site that I could take my pick of any of her litters that were due this year. In the process of putting the site together I began to learn much about Border Collies that I personally did not know and a few red flags started to show up.

Not being a man inclined to act rashly I decided to slow the process down and to do some investigating to determine if my ethics would allow me to turn the site over to her control.

That process brought me to these boards which I am grateful for.

Now I believe I must trust in my judgement that my actions will result in the best interest of these dogs.

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IronHorse I am sorry this turned out the way it did.


Being a good person you look at everyone as they are a good person. Its not your fault, its just what we good people do.


Now that you know for sure what is going on you have the power to help these dogs out of their hell.


Contact ASPCA and Border Collie rescue.


There are still good people out there.



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wow what a story to wake up to.... :eek:


I have a few questions. I'm not familiar at all with this breeder, but how did the male dog die? What is her reason for having so many dogs in this condition?


The others have given great remedies to the situation and local BC rescue groups will be the key here after the humane society has been in to confiscate the dogs. Please keep us updated.

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My prayers are with you, your wife, the dogs, and the lady as well. Sounds like a very tough situation for everyone involved. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help you, but until then you have our support. I ditto the advice to contact the ASPCA AND your local BC Rescue.

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I am so glad you stayed and kept reading. The dogs thank you and we thank you. It's amazing the path these dogs haven caused us all to take. I am sure you will do as you need to. I'm not sure where Stockton is. As you know I live in MO so if there is anything I can do please let me know. I have some rescue org. contacts. I will find the closest one to you and get the #. Would that be KC?

Kiss Thunderbolt, pray for the rest and keep doing what you have to do.



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I know you must feel as if you're up against something that's just too hard to handle. Please know that you have the support of all of us here for any efforts you take to help those poor dogs. I agree with the others who said you ought to also contact local rescue organizations--get border collie rescues and all-breed rescues involved, since most single rescue organizations might not have the resources to care for that many dogs. Be aware that unless the current owner signs the dogs over to rescue, they cannot be taken, and if legal proceedings are started against the owner, then the dogs may be held for the length of those proceedings. At any rate, the folks who are active in rescue (as well as those at the humane society) should be able to help you with the "ins and outs" of trying to help these dogs. Bless you and your wife for not turning a blind eye.



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CollieKat; as to how the dog died I can only speculate from the evidence that my wife and I observed while we were on the property and without going into the gruesome details in public I will say it had to of been a horrific ordeal,if you wish I will tell your in pm what we concluded.

as to your second question,all I can say is she gave no coherent answer as to why and we were in no frame of mind to try to get more then simple responses from her at the time.

I believe the woman has just worked herself into a corner and now is in need of emotional and mental help that I by no means will even speculate upon.

My obligations are to the wellfare of the dogs that are caught up in these mess.

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Stockton is about 30 or 40 miles NW of Springfield.

Any rescue org. contacts that you know of in that area that you can supply me with would be greatly appreciated.

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Wow. I'm so sorry. I feel so bad for you. Bless you for caring. If I can do anything for you guys, please let me know. I'll keep you and your family in our prayers. Hug Thunderbolt and know that he is safe and much luckier than the dogs that you had to leave behind today- take a little solice in that. I'm crying here myself Ironhorse, I never wanted you to learn this way.

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juliepoudrier; thank you for your support.

I really do not know if she would be willing to sign over any rights to rescue at this time.

To be honest I am not at all sure she is coherent enough to make any decisions.

What we Witnessed was a great deal of denial and self pity,and very little what i would concider logic and right thinking.

Although my last words to her was to ask if she would like for me to do whatever was in my power to bring help onto the scene such as rescue or whatever I felt was the priority I doubt very seriously that she would recall what was said. My wife had checked her and her dwelling as best she could and determined that she had been taking excessive amounts of medications, in the form of anti depressants and sleeping meds,all prescribed but being taking beyond the scope of the dosage prescribed. My wife made every atempt to remove any remaining meds to no avail.

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IronHorse (and Mrs. IronHorse):


Bless you both for what you are going through and for doing what you can to save the lives of some wonderful and innocent dogs. My prayers go out to you, as do my sincere thanks, as another animal lover. (((HUGS)))

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Annette; I know that you wished with all your heart that this would not be what it has turned out to be. We thank you for your prayers and concerns. Sometime Creator has to kick me in the ass to make his lesson clear to me,but most often those lessons are the ones that are needed the most.

We are strong and resolute once we know the purpose of our path.

We did manage to rescue one of the bitchs that we now have in our possesion and we shall be taking her to the vets this afternoon again.

As much as we would like to rescue more of the dogs at this time I do not see that this person will be responsive to our personal intervention.

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First, let me commend you on your willingness to get involved. What happened to your pup's sire is heartbreaking, but what you've done already has gone a long way towards making his death a little less senseless. He was a lovely dog, by the way - one doesn't want to say so publically about what is clearly a substandard breeder, but I did think it.


Border Collie rescue can certainly get involved. That seems like a lot of dogs but if the owner will sign them over, they can be spread out over a nationwide area and ease the burden on local rescue.


Also, the breeders of previous generations might be able to help, ie, if she got brood bitches or studs from reasonably responsible breeders. Sometimes it happens that unsuspecting folks will send dogs to people like this who misrepresent themselves.


Finally, continue to work with the Humane Society - they know the laws in your area and can lend "official" backing for any efforts, plus more local contacts. They are interested in avoiding euthanizing dogs if at all possible - in fact, if there is some place else for the dogs to go, they are usually just as happy about it.


With this in mind, it would help if someone could do the following:


Get the breeder to agreee IN WRITING to relinquish the animals in her care. Every intact dog - she will beg to keep one or two most likely but this cannot be accepted. If she has just a couple she really wants to keep for sentimental reasons (and you feel her problems truly are just being overwhelmed and she's possibly capable of being reqponsible for a couple companion animals), see if local rescue will have them sterilized. But avoid this if at all possible.


Anyway, someone will need to catalog and ID every animal (use light colored nylon collars and a big sharpie marker). She must initial every animal - so she can't say later that she didn't agree to this one or that one going. Don't let her follow you (or whoever) around while doing the cataloging - the more she sees and lays hands on the animals, the more she'll start feeling connected again. This is where having a trained Humane Society associate along with you helps.


Set up publicity - both local and nationwide. This will accomplish two things - it will raise awareness about breeders like this (some people don't think that dogs like Border collies fall victim to this kind of breeding), and it will raise a pool of resources to draw on to foster, rehabilitate, and rehome the dogs themselves.


BCR-CA recently did a breeder bust and Bob Ann should have a good idea of the kind of budget such an operation will entail. They did a lot of the work on site, at their own kennels, of course.


If a single local Border collie rescue would get behind this, then we could work to support them in whatever was needed. I'll see whether I can contact someone myself, and I'm sure you'll get others contacting you directly.


Steel yourself for the possibility that this may come to very little - you caught this lady off guard (which was good) and you may get a very different story next time you talk. She may hide the dogs, clean up, and/or refuse any further interaction without legal action. Write down RIGHT NOW what you saw and get that notarized - that will help if you and the HS wants to get a court order. I'd also write a letter of complaint to the HS - it will take a bit longer but it's more official and they can't overlook it. Make copies of everything. Write down everything. Send everything certified and file the reciepts.


And don't forget next chance you get to visit, to snap some pictures, even if it's just of the place you buried the dog under her direction (which is illegal most urban places, by the way).


Good luck and please contact me privately if you'd like more advice and assistance.

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