getting a puppy

[tessa_s212]

I am 15 years old and have been training and competing in 4-H dog shows and open shows(obedience, agility, and soon conformation) for seven years. I have been wanting a new puppy for about 1 1/2 years now. My dad and I have finally decided that I might be able to get a pup soon. I have been looking around at different breeds and decided that I might like a Border Collie. This will be a new experience for me because I own seven cocker spaniels and a Border Collie is MUCH different than a cocker. I have worked with a Border Collie in agility along with several other breeds and mix breeds so I am pretty confident that I am able to control and train one. My fear is that it will not fit into my lifestyle! I have to go to school during the day and I am also a cheerleader so I am gone a lot during the school year. But I do have 3 siblings that could play with a new pup. (If I got a new pup I would probably quit cheerleading so that I'd have more time) If I got a BC pup I'd probably get it during the summer so that I'd have more time! What do you think? Is a Border Collie a good selection for me?

[ErinKate]

Is a Border Collie a good selection for me?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think your question should be "Is a BC a good selection for my FAMILY"

Sounds like they are going to have to take on the chore as well. BC are great dogs, but not for every situation. Were will the dog go in 3yrs when you head to college? Think it over good and hard with your family. As you have probably read, they are not like cockers. Not even like a cocker on it's worst day! lol

[tessa_s212]

I have already been discussing this with my dog training advisor. She thinks that I should get one, while I am not so sure about a BC. I have worked and trained with one in agility and think they are great dogs. I am still only debating on whether to get one. I think I'd much rather get a Belgium Malinois. But, I didn't want the dog that I am training now and she turned out to be a great little dog that I couldn't live without!

[jeanine]

I think you should keep the " great little dog" and wait to get a BC until you are done with college and school.

 

Jeanine

[Maralynn]

Good for you for throughly checking out a breed BEFORE you get it!

 

My advice would be if you have doubts about a BC it would be better to go with another breed. They are a "high maintaince" dog a far as training and interaction goes. Any good working bred dog (including Malinois) is going to be alot of dog to keep busy and mentally satisfied.

 

Why does your trainer think a BC would be right for you?

[tessa_s212]

Of course I'll keep the "great little dog" but I'd like a pup I can do conformation/junior handling showmanship along with agility and obedience. Cockers just aren't as good of working dogs. I would like to get a different breed, preferably a herding breed. I want the experience of training various dogs. Right now, my dogs are slowing down, and not a whole lot is going on in my life right now and decided now would be a good time for a new puppy rather than wo years from now when I'll be leaving for college!

[MrSnappy]

Originally posted by tessa_s212:

but I'd like a pup I can do conformation/junior handling showmanship along with agility and obedience. (snip) and decided now would be a good time for a new puppy rather than wo years from now when I'll be leaving for college!

Two things

 

1) you won't find a lot of people on this board who support conformation for border collies. Most of us believe the border collie is a working dog, not a floofy show dog - or should be - and if you are looking for a conformation dog, try a breed that has already been taken over by the AKC completely, rather than help ruin the border collie. Yes, I did say "ruin." A beautiful border collie is one that works stock, not one that prances around the ring.

 

2) What happens to your high energy border collie when you go off to college two years from now? There is not a lot of foresight in what you just said. Now does not sound like the time to get a new dog if you're heading off in a couple of years. They do tend to ive a *tad* longer than that.

 

If you must get a dog, why not try a sheltie? They do well in all the things you list above, and apparently do exceptionally well in obedience.

 

RDM

[Denise Wall]

but I'd like a pup I can do conformation/junior handling showmanship along with agility and obedience.

I think you need to read the sticky at the top of this general section.

[jeanine]

How about a sheltie!

[SoloRiver]

If you want a dog to do conformation with, this is definitely not the breed for you.

 

Anyway, it sounds like you have a lot on your plate. I was a cheerleader in high school (as well as features editor of the school paper and other activities) and I know how busy you must be. A Border Collie isn't a dog, it's a way of life. You won't have enough time to work with a Border Collie unless you want to quit or curtail your other school activities.

 

Also, what's going to happen to the dog when you go to college?

 

I'd hold off on getting a new puppy at all if I were you, personally. If you must get one, then another lower-maintenance herding breed (Shelties sound like a good choice) would be better for you.

[Caroline]

I vote for Sheltie!!! Please don't get a Border Collie, a Sheltie is great in obedience, agility and easier to keep with your lifestyle.

Caroline

[CoRayBee]

SoloRiver's claim that a border collie is a way of life is right on the mark. They are just not like any other breed, therefore you can't really expect to raise/keep them like any other breed.

 

Congratulations on doing your homework- so to speak, lol- but I would take everyone's advice to heart with regards to conformation shows, school, etc.

 

I'm going to stick my nose in and give my vote for Shelties. They are active, smart, and a lot of fun. They are beautiful dogs without the little dog stigma (they're tougher than they look and have tons of attitude)- and you generally won't have to worry about coming home to a house full of shredded furniture and slobber all over your mail.

 

The only drawback (bark) is their (bark) reputation (bark) for making (bark) a bit (bark) of noise (bark) now and (bark) then. But in my 20+ years of Sheltie owner experience the only real nuisance is my parent's most recent one, and I can forgive her because she was a rescue and never had much in the way of stimulation or education.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

You can do a mixed breed in junior showmanship, right? Why don't you rescue a cute, smart mixed breed from the shelter - such a dog would be grateful for the attention you could give and wouldn't eat the siding off your house in sheer boredom while waiting for you to finish your school activities. You think I'm kidding? It WILL happen.

 

Here's what Ollie the Aussie/Border Collie foster dog did because he had to divide my attention among my five other dogs:

 

 

And here's how I amuse him to KEEP him from doing stuff like that (love that tail, by the way):

 

 

Can you offer your pup this level of interaction? Not saying you have to work stock with her, but I've found fifteen minutes of stock time is roughly equal to a couple hours straight of training and play.

 

Please consider rescuing a pound puppy. Go ahead and look at these faces - all available in your area - and try to say "No."

 

Just a few of 450 puppies I found just by searching petfinder.com on medium sized puppies in Cleveland.

 

http://tinyurl.com/bm3d7

http://tinyurl.com/7mqej

http://tinyurl.com/a275w

http://tinyurl.com/8oese

http://tinyurl.com/bzfyb

http://tinyurl.com/9zqzh

http://tinyurl.com/azkqe

http://tinyurl.com/7wre8

[Miztiki]

They are right. Think HARD before getting a Border Collie. Having one is more like having a perpetual 4 year old child than having a dog. They are not like other breeds of dogs. They NEED alot of human interaction, mental stimulation and physical exercise EVERY SINGLE DAY for their entire lives, which averages something like 13 years. Mine lived to be 14 1/2!

 

If you do not provide them with the time and attention they need, they will make you regret it. They are known for developing obsessive-compulsive habits that can be hard to break (like self-mutilation). They can become destructive, loud, aggressive, fearful, etc.

 

There are tons of BC owners out there who were experienced dog owners and trainers before they got their first BC, and they will tell you that despite their research into the breed, they were not fully prepared for such a high maintenance dog.

 

I was younger than you when I got my first BC and I had to miss out on alot of fun in my teenage and early 20's years because my dog required so much of my time. Whatever you can give your dog will never be enough. They are always ready for more and they will wear most people out.

 

Just think long and hard before you make your final decision. We see too many people every day who come to the conclusion that they made a mistake, are unable to provide for their dog properly, and need to find it a new home. Unfortunately, most new homes are somewhere over the rainbow bridge (put to sleep) because there are more BC's needing a new home than there are new homes ready for one.

 

Whatever you decide, I want to commend you for doing your research and asking questions now. It's a great start to responsible dog ownership!

[kelpiegirl]

I think it is great you asked for everyone's opinion on getting a BC. I have Kelpies, and owning a Kelpie means Kelpie lifestyle. These dogs, and BC's are 100% all encompassing dogs. They need a job, whatever that may be, and they need to feel useful (this is very important in my 2). There are some VERY nice English Cockers out there that can do agility, show, and hunt like there is no tomorrow.

Keep researching breeds, and remember what you already have at home You are young, so you have many years ahead of you to own MANY dogs! )

Julie

[tessa_s212]

I have already considered all of this. I would definitely have no problem controlling and training a BC but I may not have enough time even if I quit cheerleading(which I am fully prepared to do)--about conformation: I could see your point of view if the dog was ONLY going to be shown in conformation, but If I were to get a BC it would mostly be shown agility and obedience. Conformation never "ruins" a dog or breed unless you do not give it the work to do such as herding, or agility. --Thanx kelpiegirl! But I am actually tryig to steer away from the sporting group! I would like some more experience with different breeds.

[juliepoudrier]

****rant warning****

Where is that banging head icon?!?!?! Tessa, if you've already made your decision and are so quick to dismiss what everyone here has said ("I have already considered all this"), then WHY are you asking the question????

 

If you recognize that you may not have enough time even if you give up cheerleading, then why are you considering a border collie puppy?

 

If you are leaving for college in two years, then why are you considering ANY puppy?

 

If you are like most students, and especially those that leave for college, then it's likely that your parents will end up with whatever dog you choose. That being the case, I think they should have a huge say in what you decide to get. It will be your dog for 2 years, and probably theirs for the rest of its life.

 

Of course I'm sure you've already considered all that....

 

So why do you really want a border collie? Because having one will give you a greater chance of winning in agility and obedience? Are you really considering the life of the dog or your own personal needs?

 

And when the border collie puppy takes up what little time you have, what will happen to the other seven dogs you have?

 

Sounds to me like you've already made your decision and just came here for affirmation. Then you didn't get it.

 

I second the person who suggested you read the sticky at the top of this board. If you really think showing in conformation does no harm to a breed, then you really are misguided. And given the nature of this board, you certainly won't find anyone supporting your conformation showing decision.

 

*end of rant*

 

J.

[Carson Crazies]

You say you're doing research? You may benefit from reading these two threads:

 

click here Want a Puppy?

 

and here Read this First

 

I was a cheerleader in high school also, and worked part time. Who knows where I found time to do homework. Even being in High School, or College and all the fun that those things entail makes the idea of having a Border Collie staggering. Something I think you may want to consider is if you give up cheerleading for this pup, are you going to eventually resent the pup?

 

I keep reading where you say

 

I would definitely have no problem controlling and training a BC

but really control and training are not the real issues here. Is control and training really enough? I don't think so. I think the real issue here is the quality of life for the BC, and you (the owner) being responsible and actively in charge of seeing to that.

 

You have many, many years ahead of you to make this kind of decision. If I were in your position, I would wait until I finished High School and College before undertaking a pup. The road you have ahead of you is going to be easy enough to mess up without the added pressure of responsibility of another life. I hope you are really listening.

[kelpiegirl]

Hi again:

I think if you are planning on going to college, best to wait on getting any more animals. There are options for being around/training BC's. Many trainers (herding, agility, etc) would be happy to take on an apprentice. As an apprentice you are taught by a mentor, and well, and when you are comfortable can then help them out. You could even go to camps that they teach at, or to herding clinics that they give, or well, the sky is the limit. You will gain much experience, but will not have to have the responsibility of having another dog to pay for, and take a LARGE chunk out of your day. Then, when you have finished college, and have a good job, you are set to start out having your own dog at your own home, and then the sky is the limit!!!

Julie

[Kitch]

Another thing to consider...if you get a puppy, the dog won't be ready to safely compete in agility for a few years...right about the time you head off to college.

 

Kitch

[Carson Crazies]

Good point kelpiegirl. There are several things I've learned in life that do NOT suit me by trying them out under a mentor (such as selling lumber and playing softball) and many things that I've found out I LOVE due to a mentor (horses, sheep and Border Collies).

[Eileen Stein]

>

 

Since you're so sure you know more than we do, it's understandable that you would not be much interested in our advice. But for some reason you asked for it anyway, so I'll add my voice to the chorus. To get a border collie puppy in your situation makes no sense at all, regardless of whether you would have no problem controlling or training one.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

So you are going into "real" conformation? I'd advise you to find a traditional conformation breed and focus on that. I don't understand why you'd want to take a dog that is bred for extreme athleticism and make it stand around in a conformation ring, primp and pose, and eat liver, for "fun".

 

Not to mention that it is absolutely the case that the conformation mentality is not compatible with working, which in border collies is ONLY working livestock. Border collies are a working breed - they are one of the few breeds still DEFINED by their original function (ie, if they can't work livestock, they don't get bred, no matter how pretty or athletic they are).

 

Therefore, agility is not a substitute for "work" for a border collie as it can be for one of the many, many, many many companion breeds.

 

A border collie is not a toy or athletic equipment, like a cheerleader's pom-pom, to be used when needed, stored when not wanted, and tossed when no longer needed. No dog is, but there are plenty of breeds that are better suited to the limited level of interaction you are describing.

[tessa_s212]

Because I am going off to college in a few years is exactly why I even started to question the idea of a border collie. Although I will attend college near home(I will be home at night)my family, or should I say my dad, would be basically taking care of the dog for me. My dad is the one who wants the BC. ...Not to be rude, but I really do feel like you are personally attacking me for just trying to get knowledge on the BC.

[Pipedream Farm]

.....just trying to get knowledge on the BC.

 

Medium to very-high physical activity level

High to very-high mental activity level

Mental maturity achieved 3-4 years old

 

So, you want a Border Collie. How do you plan of fulfilling its NEED for mental and physical exercise? Outside time in a fenced yard will not cut it; a walk once or twice a day will not cut it. Will you be able to give it enough physical and mental activity in the evenings when you're home from school to satisfy its need through the night and the next day while you're at school? It can be done, but it takes the right amount of physical AND mental exercise. If you can't meet these needs the Border Collie will get bored and will find its own activity to alleviate boredom :eek: .

 

Working with a Border Collie during an agility class is just a small moment of an entire day. You should think carefully about how you plan to meet this dog's needs for activity throughout the day and then choose very carefully so you get the right personality for your lifestyle. This is where getting a rescue can very beneficial; rescue orgs have already figured out the personality of each dog and what they will need throughout the day to be happy.

 

Mark

 

BTW Do yourself a favor and don't get a pup right before attending college. If your dad wants to get one for himself, that's fine. You'll be spending more time at school than the time you spend in classes. You're going to miss many life experiences if you cannot enjoy life on campus because you have to go home to your pup. The learning at college is not done solely in classes.