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Thinking about a BC...need advice!


Darryl
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Hi everyone! I finally got rid of my landlady(bought the house from her, dont worry!), so now Im shopping for a dog. Ive done alot of reading about BCs and I really want one. I just want to make for certain that it is the right breed for me and that Ill be able to give it what it needs. So i have a few questions for all you experienced owners, and Ill give you a little info abour myself. Please feel free to comment as you see fit, I dont want to get the wrong breed!

 

So how much activity do these dogs REALLY need? I mean if I take a walk in the morning, and then a jog at night at the very least, will that be enough? I plan on doing more things such as taking it to a park and playing frisbee and letting it run around, but I cant do that EVERY day. I mean will the dog become neurotic and hyper if it doesnt get to tire itself out everyday? I am a 25 yr old single guy who is quite active, so I do have the time and interest for a dog like this, but I do work anywhere from 4-8 hours per day. Now I could arrange to either bring the dog with me to work and let it hang around outside on a leash, with playtime from myself whenever i can get outside. Or I can have my neighbor and best friend come over and let him out for a little while each day while Im gone. Another thing to know is that my house is smallish on the inside, and the yard is also smallish. So the dog would have to mainly be an indoors dog as far as living is concerned, but I will take him out regularly. I dont have a fence, but I am open to installing one. Do any of you have a BC and also work full-time? How much time do you spend excercising the dog each day? I do understand that these dogs are very intelligent and need mental stimulation. That is one of the main things that had attracted me to the breed. So Im all into teaching him little tricks and teaching him do do things (ie fetch the paper, slippers, turn lights, etc.), is this the type of mental stimulation required?

 

Wow, I know thats a lot of questions but I really want to make sure we are right for each other before I take one home. Any comments/questions, suggestions, or other info about the bredd is GREATLY appreciated!!!! Thanks!

Darryl

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thanks for the advice BorDur! I think Ill take a run to the Barnes and Noble and see if I can find that book. And a big thanks for the lead on what looks like an excellant breeder. I have no problem paying a good premium to get a quality dog. How is the temperment of yours? (gorgeous dog, by the way!) How old is he? And to clarify....did you say that dogs from working stock are generally more calm than those bred for looks?? I was under the impression that working dogs had the tendency to be more hyper.....

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Originally posted by Darryl:

So how much activity do these dogs REALLY need? I mean if I take a walk in the morning, and then a jog at night at the very least, will that be enough?

That sound you hear is my dogs laughing at you. A walk in the morning and a jog at night - what does that MEAN? A walk around the block? A jog to 7-11 and back? Or are you talking running a marathon every evening? And if you are, what are you going to do for mental stimulation for the dog? If you do mean a walk around the block and a quick jog at night, you might consider a different breed of dog.

 

Dogs will adapt to any lifestyle within reason. But by within reason I mean within parameters that the dog can function in. You wouldn't take a pug and expect him to run for hours on end, so you shouldn't take a working dog and expect to offer him very little to do.

 

My dogs can and do stay home for a standard 9 hour work day. But I do get up at 5:30 in the morning to make sure they get a good hour's run first, and then after work we do the same thing for another hour. It sucks in the winter, but that's life. I made the choice to have border collies. If I am not feeling well, or am super busy or whatever, I can skip a day here and there, but if I skip a couple of days, the dogs start to get restless and the lack of exercise and activity start to show.

 

I plan on doing more things such as taking it to a park and playing frisbee and letting it run around, but I cant do that EVERY day.
Why can't you do that every day? Pretty much everyone I know who has a border collie (unless they have working sheepdogs) does it every day, or almost every day. It's part of owning the breed, in my opinion - the dog wants something to do, and you are the person who has to provide that something. If I had sheep for my dog to work, I could certainly get away with a less time intensive schedule of exercise. But since I don't, I have to give my dogs an outlet that is suitable. We find that about 2 hours a day of exercise, off leash, usually involving a ball, is suitable. Some dogs will need more, some may need less.

 

RDM

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BorDurColly:

 

I was just checking out the pictures of your pup. I noticed you posted the dam and sire's pedigrees. The puppy was born 7/15/04. The dam of the pup was born 3/7/03 and the sire born 1/18/03. This basically means the dam was only 16 months old when she had this litter? Are you sure you have the right dam?

 

Darryl:

 

There have been discussions about Buchanan BC's on this board. You might want to search the archives and look through that for some information.

 

I strongly recommend rescue.

 

Jodi

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Originally posted by Jodi:

Darryl:

 

There have been discussions about Buchanan BC's on this board. You might want to search the archives and look through that for some information.

 

I strongly recommend rescue.

 

Jodi

Wow....glad Im doing a little bit of homework before I do anything!!!
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Darryl

Let me start by saying that BC's are great dogs and wonderful companions but they are also alot of work and if your not willing to put in the time you will regret it.....Let me give you somebackground on myself and an idea what my day consists of with two BC's......My first BC was a rescue, he was very low key easy to train and not alot of trouble. Pride was very capable of amusing himself with out being destructive. I joined these board when I had Pride and wondered what all these crazy people were talking about when they got on the kick of how BC's need alot of exercise, can be destructive BLAH BLah. I thought alot of these people were more nuts than the dogs they owned.....Any how I have since discovered the BC they talk about......When Pride died I decieded that I wanted another BC (Hard to turn back once you've had one, like Lay's potatoe chips.) I got Blaze and wasn't long realizing I had more than I was expecting.....I am married have 2 sons, 2 BC's and a golden retriever. My morning starts at 5:00 am "EVERY" morning. The BC's are excercised for 1 to 1 1/2 hours in the morning, I go home on my lunch hour and excercise them, them the babysitter is back in by 2:00 pm and plays with them for a couple of hours. The BC's get 1 to 2 hours every nite of ball and agility training. All this time and there still not played out. Weekend's for me are planned around my dogs. Saturday and Sunday invole usally a 2 to 3 hour hike and agility practice. This is all time spent with a dog that is over a year old, puppy stage was even more work......Blaze will not touch a thing when we are home but left alone he has chewed sevaral wooden item's and his tail when crated for long period's of time. He now has a 12'X12' run which he is much happier with.....Bc's are unbeleivable dog they will do anything for you they are very commited to there owner but they expect the same in return.....I can't beleive that I sound like so many off the others but in time you learn. My advice to you is to find someone locally with a Bc as a pet and spend sometime getting a feel for what they are like. Mind you not all Bc's are this high attivity but if you get one and your not prepared your in for a rough road.

 

Tony

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I have a 13 week old female Border Collie from working lines and she is very active and high energy. To give you an example of our typical day:

 

8:30 We get up, go outside for a potty break and then back inside for her first meal of the day. After she eats, we go out again for another potty break and anywhere from a half hour to an hour and a half of play which consists of running up and down the yard with me and chasing after balls. We come back inside and whatever of her breakfast she didn't eat I put inside a Kong toy to give her mental stimulation and finish it off. Next we have a short training session on basic obedience and loose leash walking.

 

An hour or so later, we repeat this process minus the Kong toy and food bit, then she takes a nap. When she wakes up, she goes outside to potty, back in for another 1/2 cup of food, another training session and then we go outside again to play. When we come in, she plays with her toys by herself. She takes another nap in the late afternoon and we start the whole process again. I also hide things around the house for her to sniff out and find.

 

9:00 p.m. We have the last round of runs up and down the yard and playing ball outside, then I give her a Kong toy stuffed with food or treats to start winding her down for the night. We also have another short training session for a total of three on average daily. She goes in her crate to go to sleep and I put all her toys up for the next day.

 

This is my day with her every day. She goes nearly non stop from the morning until around 9:00 at night, with a few breaks for naps. She is either on or off; it takes a lot to wear her out and get her tired. That schedule is not counting whatever time is spent on grooming or trips to the vet. My daily schedule pretty much revolves around her. Granted, she's still a puppy and a large portion of caring for her right now is spent on housetraining, crate training, basic obedience training, and watching her to make sure she's not chewing on things she shouldn't be and correcting her when she does.

 

Once she has had all her shots and her bones are fully mature, I'm going to start taking her for long runs around the block as well as getting her into flyball and or agility, and will probably get a swimming pool for her also or find somewhere to take her swimming.

 

Border Collies can make excellent pets if you don't plan on working them at herding livestock, but they do need a suitable replacement for that that requires a lot of physical exertion and mental stimulation or they will not be happy or well adjusted dogs. Not having that will turn all their positive attributes into negative, destructive ones for most Border Collies. Not all Border Collies need that much exercise or are that high energy though. At the same time, this is not a breed to look into if you want a dog that's going to be happy lying on the couch with you and going out for a short run or walk or game of fetch two or three times a day.

 

I have a small fenced in yard and that is nice to have with her. I never leave her outside unattended for any length of time because she's too young to right now and I don't really trust my neighbors to do that. I have neighbors that walk up to people's fences and do things to scare their dogs; they have already done this to Lily when I had gone inside for a minute to get her a toy, and to my neighbor's dogs. Another neighbor that has some issues really likes to borrow people's things without asking at times, and I wouldn't doubt it if she'd let Lily out of the fence so her kids could play with her. As soon as I can get down to the hardware store or Wal Mart, I am going to buy padlocks and chains for both gates.

 

When I had my Border Collie/Fox Terrier mix Betty I was living in a third floor apartment in Colorado that allowed pets and was fairly pet friendly, with several dog walk areas all over the apartment complex. I would take her out several times a day to run and play and go potty and while taking her down four flights of stairs to go outside did take more time and work than being able to simply open the front door and let her go out and she wasn't always able to hold it until we got down the stairs; with most Border Collies; patience, training and the commitment to taking them outside quite often you can make not having a yard of your own work. There was this big grassy field and dog park near the apartment complex that I would take her to nearly every day, so that helped out a lot. There are some breeds that just don't do well in apartment complexes or without yards and even within breeds that normally do, there will be the occasional exception.

 

Lily is the third Border Collie or mix I've had and with the exception of the middle one Ranger who was very sickly his whole life, overall they've been similar but do have their distinct personalities and learning rates. For obedience, Lily and Betty have learned at about the same pace. Lily is taking longer to house train than Betty did; but we'll get there. Betty learned faster what was ok to chew and what was not to chew and wasn't shy at all with people but was with other dogs for a while. Lily on the other hand is shy and very submissive with people but not with other dogs, and gets into everything she can. Betty was more laidback, Lily is more stubborn and highstrung. But they're both great, sweet girls; Lily just needs more work, attention and time than Betty did. Betty being a mix does account for some of the way she was.

 

As far as rescue goes, the good things about getting a dog from rescue or a shelter instead of from a breeder are (1) you are giving a dog that was given up by its owners a second chance at its forever home (2) you are opening up a spot within the rescue for another dog to get that chance and (3) rescues will usually have more dogs or pups available than a breeder and certainly more than a reputable breeder will, which gives you a better chance of being matched up with the right dog for you, and rescues work with people to try to get good matches. Dogs from breeders are going to be bought by someone eventually, but dogs in shelters and rescues don't always have time or luck on their side.

 

This is all just my experiences and opinions. I'm pretty much just a Border Collie pet owner and on the intermediate side of the beginner end at that; I do plan on getting Lily into dog sports one day but I don't know if I'll ever use her for herding work. I've been around and dogs all my life but Betty was the first Border Collie or mix I'd ever owned or been around and it was a huge learning experience, which I'm now applying to Lily and building upon. It's never a dull moment and I'm learning more about the breed all the time. I'm nowhere near and years away from knowing all there is to know about Border Collies but I plan on learning as much as I can and seeing as many different sides of the Border Collie world as I can by going to different dog events like herding competions, farms to watch them work at real life herding and dog sport competions. I still consider myself new to the breed even though Lily is my third BC. If you want to know why that is then please click on the links in my signature; I haven't been around the breed very long. I've learned a lot from this board, so you're in a good place to start.

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You're in a great region for rescue. I recommend addressing your questions directly to them. One of the missions of a good rescue is to answer exactly the questions you have.

 

One nice thing about breed rescue is that, if you do decide to go that route, they can match an individual dog to your lifestyle. There IS a fairly wide variation in personalities within the breed - sometimes between littermates even! So I always strongly urge anyone with specific needs to get an adult.

 

To illustrate what I mean: I have a female and male out of the same working lines. The female gets a mile walk, some fun training, plenty of time with me, plus daily sheep or duck training time. She's going nuts, doing crazy stuff like obsessing over flying bugs, digging around the duck pond, and chasing birds out of the yard. She needs full-time chore work which she'll get when she's reliable enough but she's not got enough training yet. The male does half an hour of chores eery day and then is content with hanging out for the rest of the day. He CAN work all day if need be but doesn't need to.

 

The only way to know what you're getting is to get the dog from someone who has lived with it and will honestly represent its needs to you. The rescuers in your area are terrific - I'd definitely get in touch before you go any further.

 

http://www.wibordercollierescue.com/

http://www.greatlakesbcrescue.org/

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I know I am repeating what others have said but....it is important. GET A RESCUE DOG. Not a puppy. The foster home person who has the rescue dog can match up your circumstance and temperament with the temperment of the dog. At least, that is what happened for me. I got matched to the most perfect dog for me, and cannot tell you how wonderful it is to have him in my life. He is really never any trouble at all. But I will also tell you that he gets exercise EVERY day. Very rarely does it not happen, and then I feel guilty as hell for not being a good dog mom.

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check out the rescue what have you got to lose (except your heart)we have two BC's one from more a conformation line, as we say here in australia Pet lines and one from farm stock, we love them both but kira (farm dog) from an early age was extremely high maintenance, walks or runs in the morning and evening a lot of indoor play and still she would try and escape over the 6ft fence while we were at work also we had a nice size yard but even with all the toys and sparty to keep her company she ran the yard bare of grass chasing birds as they flew over and this was before she was 18 months old. she now has 20 acres and bunnies chickens and horses to keep her amused but still she is on the go all the time, no way can you tell this from a puppy!!! and she was one of the pups the breeder didnt keep for their own training

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A six month old could not be whelping. That would mean she was three and a half months old when she was bred. The pros on this list can verify this for me but I'm pretty darn sure that's impossible (not mention disgusting).

 

People who truly are breeding dogs for the purpose of producing superior working dogs do not breed bitches at just over a year old. There's no way you could know whether she's sound, trainable, and talented enough to have good working pups.

 

I'm pretty easy going but it does annoy me to read Bor Dur Coly go on about things that he or she admits ignorance about. It can give wrong impressions to newcomers who might not be able to tell the difference between knowlegeable advisors and those who are just writing for the sake of writing - or promoting a breeder.

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The thing that scares me ... is the fact that this breeder doesn't hip test or eye test at the "advice of [his] vet." (I am not sure what vet on this planet would not recommend eye and/or hip checks.) He doesn't trial, although he says he works his dogs. Now, I know when I got my male pup, I waited till he was about 10 or 11 months old before I even started training him on stock. He's 3 years old now and I still don't feel I've worked him enough to see if he's got the right stuff for breeding (not that I have any plans to breed him). I could not imagine working him for two or three months and then breeding him, despite his fabulous temperament, and good eye and hip tests.

 

This breeder also charges different prices for different colors and different sexes. I don't see the point there. Why would a red and white female be worth more than a black and white male? Do they work better? Sounds like a "what the market will bear" breeder.

 

"Fawn" has a pup from Buchanan, and I'm not sure of her pup's birth date, but the dam is Spring, born 1/18/03, and the sire is Rusty born 2/3/03. Obviously this breeder is not concerned with proving his breeding stock. In my opinion, with breeding them so young, he does not have enough time to evaluate temperament, working ability, etc. I bought a pup from someone in Georgia (turned out she was diagnosed with HD at 6 months old and was spayed) who had a decent temperament ... right up until she was a year old. Despite properly socializing her (taking her everywhere, exposing her to children, other dogs, busy situations, etc.), her temperament has gotten worse and worse. Last week (she's 19 months old now), she bit someone who got too close to her face. Had I not spayed her because of her hips, I would have spayed her on temperament alone. Oh, did I mention? She works like a dream. Natural outrun, nice square flanks, good pace, not too much eye, etc.

 

Fawn and Bor Dur Colly, I'm glad your pups are healthy and happy. I hope it stays that way.

 

Darryl, I applaud you for coming on the boards and researching this. For a running partner and play partner, I still stand by my original thought ... there are plenty of dogs in rescue who would be happy to run with you and play, play, play!

 

Jodi

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Darryl,

 

I strongly recommend that you go through resue and get a somewhat older dog.

 

Tying a dog outside work for 4-8 hours is not what I consider a great idea. If you could have the dog with you and give it attention and play on what would otherwise be coffee breaks and such would be different.

 

A puppy will need more personal time more often than an older dog. We worked it out because there are two of us and we live 15 minutes from where we each worked. So we staggered our start and end times, and took turns coming home at lunch. Then we retired (just in time to escape being unemployed - in this great economy we've had for ~4 years).

 

Without our location and our flex time, we'd have chosen a rescue of about a year old or more. And one that was known to be able to be alone during the day.

 

We did choose a border collie because we knew she'd ensure that we stay as active as we want and need to be. No one believes that we are 58 & 60 or that she is 9. Which is the idea.

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I also think that rescue is a great place to start. I DID get a BC puppy about 2 years ago (and a yearling rescue this summer), but I'd already had two BCs as rescues first, and I am SO so *SO* glad I did. I have/had a very intense bond with the rescues (one of whom died this summer, to my sorrow), so I doubt bonding will be an issue. (Sometimes, in fact, it's actually easier to bond to a rescue dog.) Also, it does give you a chance to get a dog that is a known quantity - the activity level you describe would be fine for some dogs but not enough for others. Hence, if you get an older dog (as in, older puppy or adult), you have a chance to pick one who will fit with your lifestyle. I'd say that one of my BC's would've been very happy with the schedule you describe, two would be content, and the other would be fretting.

 

One other thing - I would NOT have been prepared to take on a BC puppy without the prior exposure to the adult rescue BCs; so, a rescue may teach you a lot about owning bcs, so that later you'll have a clearer idea of what you're looking for and an easier time making the "BC pup or not" decision. You might find out that these are THE dog for you and end up getting a pup down the road, and if so you'll be all the better prepared for having had a rescue teach you the ropes. It's just a lot easier of you don't have A) puppiness to deal with, and :rolleyes: the wrong BC personality for your lifestyle. Plus, of course, you'd be rescuing a dog who needs a home, which is a Good Thing. I would very definitely invest in a fence, and I wouldn't personally feel comfortable leaving my dog tied outide my place of work even for a little while - having someone trustworthy come in and walk the dog mid-day sounds a lot better to me.

 

As a BTW to whoever asked (Brookcove?), I've never seen a dog go into heat before 6 months of age - one cat, out of the zillions I've seen, but no dogs (so far - and the cat was in heat at about 5.5 months, so only about 2 weeks earlier than expected). So while not absolutely medically impossible (never say never in medicine), EXTREMELY unlikely, as in just not seen. The idea of a pup being fertile before 4 months of age - well, there are the occasional freaks of nature (like humans who go into puberty at the age of four, or something) so you can't say it would NEVER happen in a million years, but maybe never in a half a million years. :D

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I just remembered about this link...

 

If you go to http://www.ivillage.com/pets/tools/breedse...rival_freqCap=2, they have a neat feature on there. It's a short survey type quiz of maybe 15 or so questions to help determine which breeds are best suited to what you are looking for in a dog as well as your living arrangements, space and time available and willing to spend with the dog, and things of that nature. At the end it will give you a list of the breeds most suited to you based upon your answers. I found it to be really helpful as you can get unbiased answers as to what breeds are best suited for you. Granted, talking to people associated with the breed like you're doing on here helps even more. This is just a good way to find out a little about all the breeds that are suited to you if want a dog but are only thinking about a BC right now.

 

Good luck, hope this helps some!

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To add to what everyone else has said.

 

Rescue is the way to go, unless you are planning to work sheep with your dog. They'll help match you with the dog, and there are more than enough border collies out there looking for homes.

 

At least, most of the time, rescue will help match you with the dog--for an opposing point of view, see SoloRiver's story about how she got Solo....

 

I walk my dogs for about 40 minutes in the morning before I go to work--at least 20 minutes of it is frisbee time, which is work, not play.

 

I walk them for an hour to an hour and a half in the evening, much of which is also work/play of some sort. Border collies don't just want to go for long walks or runs--they need things to do.

 

I also have a dogsitter who comes every day and takes the boys out for an hour or so.

 

Evenings, I throw balls in the house while I read, and we do ten or fifteen minutes of focused obedience training right before bed.

 

There is a range of activity levels within the breed, but if you expect about this level of activity, you will probably be prepared correctly.

 

And to emphasize again--it isn't enough to just give them a chance to run. You have to do things with them that challenge them mentally.

 

MR

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Darryl,

I am going to touch on a number of points that have been brought up in preceding posts, as well as give you my experience with border collies in general. I'll warn you in advance that this is long.

 

Just to post the other end of the activity spectrum, I have seven dogs, six border collies and one border collie mix. Three are trial dogs, and of the four remaining, two are retired from trialling and are rarely, if ever, worked. Two or three of my trial dogs come to work with me and we do something at lunch, sometimes swimming or running on the beach, sometimes on- or off-leash walks (depending on the location). These activities take less than an hour, since lunch technically lasts just an hour (though I sometimes stretch that by 15 minutes or so).

 

In the mornings the dogs go out in their yard for about half an hour while I get up, wash my face, etc. Then they come out of their yard to run around the property of the 10-15 minutes it takes me to feed my chickens and let them out of their houses. They are then fed, and go back into their yard while I feed the cats, the bird, make my bed, wash dishes, get dressed for work, etc. Then they get another brief walk around the property before either getting in the van to go to work or going back in the house, where they stay loose, some upstairs, some downstairs (because I have two that don't get along) while I am at work. I leave for work before 7 and get home after 6. I do have a housemate who gets home around 3:30 or 4, so the dogs are basically free in the house for at least 8 hours a day.

 

During daylight savings time, the working dogs do get worked during the week. When days are short, and it's dark when I leave for work and dark when I get home, then they get worked on weekends (assuming we're not trialling--during busy fall trialling time, the trial dogs may well go from trial to trial with no work in between unless there's something that absolutely needs doing with their help).

 

I got all of my dogs but one as adults. I would second the recommendation that you start with a young adult and get used to border collie ownership before trying a pup. Others will tell you about the great luck they've had with their pups, but truthfully, you just don't know what you're getting personality-wise when you bring home a pup. My pup was my fourth dog, and she certainly was more work than the adults. BUT, I didn't spend hours entertaining her every day either. She learned early on about down time. It's all well and good to give the youngsters plenty of exercise, but I think oftentimes people expect the dogs to need tons of exercise and so create dogs that need tons of exercise. My pup came to work with me from 7 weeks on. She got my allowed two 15-minute breaks a day, plus lunch and spent the rest of the time mainly sleeping (pups, especially young ones, need plenty of sleep). She learned that down time was a way of life and it has made her much easier to live with as an adult.

 

I should also note that this particular dog is not quite three and we have recently moved to open in sheepdog trials. So all the down time certainly didn't affect her livestock working ability. To touch on the breeding a young dog issue, Twist is still intact, but unbred at nearly three because although I think she is a good working/farm dog, she has not yet proven herself to the extent that I can say she should be bred. Yes, she was running nursery (open course minus the shed) at 1 and qualified for nursery finals before she was 2, but still I don't think a judgment could be made about her breedability. That, and it's hard to give up a the use of a good dog for the time needed for breeding, whelping, and raising a litter, not to mention the risks to her health from all of the above. Some folks do breed early, but someone breeding lots of young dogs and selling based on color, etc., should not be considered a good breeder. It doesn't matter if one or two satisfied customers tell you about them, if you are interested in the breed and like it for the qualities that make it unique then you would do well to help perpetuate that kind of dog, and that means doing your research and finding a reputable breeder of working dogs.

 

If your heart is set on a puppy, how do you find a reputable breeder? Most border collie rescue folks can point you in the right direction. Rescues even get puppies in. If possible, attend sheepdog trials in your area and meet owners of working dogs. They can also point you in the direction of good, reputable breeders.

 

As for the myth about working bred dogs being more in need of activity, I would be willing to bet that dogs bred indiscriminately as is done with millers and back-yard breeders are the ones most likely to be hyper, and that it is a sweeping generalization that I usually avoid. The fact is that working dogs don't work 24/7. I may need my dog to push sheep into a chute/pen for treatments/feet trimming, but while I'm actually doing those things, the dog needs to lie quietly and not disturb the stock. Likewise for shearing. Periods of intense activity followed by periods of nonactivity. If I couldn't trust my dog to leave the stock alone (i.e., be calm and quiet) while I was working on individuals, then that dog wouldn't be much use to me in a working farm situation. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't expect my dog to work all day if need be, so the ability to do so must be there, but the truth is that if I'm busy doing something with the stock and don't require the dog's help at that time, then I don't want the dog making work for itself.

 

When I got my first dog (the mix), I was rather overwhelmed. I had been raised with dogs (that started as puppies), livestock, etc., but it's still different when the animal is completely your responsibility. Indy was my jogging partner and all-around buddy. I think that if I had started with a puppy I would have been headed for disaster (or a nervous breakdown). I don't doubt that I would have succeeded with a puppy, but I'm glad I didn't take on that much responsibility for my first dog.

 

I got Willow from rescue a couple of years later and she became my jogging partner. I took in a third rescue whose owner had died. It was this third dog that led someone to suggest to me that I try my dogs on stock. Willow became one of my first trial dogs. She also was one who tended to be a bit destructive if she didn't get enough exercise, but a 3-mile jog, maybe some rollerblading, and some play time each day was enough.

 

Anyway, since I don't pass the retirees on, and at least one of my rescues is a bit too loony (crop circles, anyone?) to rehome, my number of dogs has mushroomed a bit.

 

Lest you think the poor things spend absolutely boring lives, they don't. When I have more time, they get it. My live revolves around them and their needs. Six travel with me to trials, so they are always going to new places and seeing new things. (Indy, the old man of the bunch who is going on 11, prefers to stay home.) At trials, they aren't just stuck in crates in the van--they get plenty of walks and time with me watching the trial.

 

Sometimes the dogs do dig craters in the yard. Sometimes they destroy things (Willow holds the record for choosing only expensive items--Birkenstock sandals, prescription eyeglasses, prescription orthotic inserts for my running shoes--but that was early on in our time together. They still occasionally will do bad things, but in general they don't and practicing prevention helps (i.e., I don't leave things I really care about anywhere the dogs can get them).

 

When my work schedule changes and I am home more, then they will get more exercise and fun time. Likewise if I move to an area where I can safely take them on jogs and long walks. In other words, they have become quite good at adjusting their activity levels to mine. In any case, the main point I wanted to make is that my dogs can be and are willing to be as busy as I will let them, but they also know how to "turn it off" when we can't be busy for whatever reason.

 

To address your more specific questions, I wouldn't leave my dog unattended at work if I had a better alternative, as you seem to have. Too many things can happen to a dog who is tied out, especially if there's not a way for someone to be watching him at all times.

 

Installing a fence is a very good idea. A fence is not a substitute for you interacting with the dog, but it can be a lifesaver (for both you and the dog) to have a safe place to turn the dog out when you can't be right there with him.

 

Anyway, this post has gotten way too long, so I'll end here. Let me say again that talking with your local rescue is a great place to start. They really are very good at matching dogs to your lifestyle. Someone mentioned Melanie's experience with Solo, and let that be a warning to deal with reputable rescues. Becca has given you links to two in your area. In my limited experience, the problem rescues (mine included) are those who come through private rescue situations and not well-organized and -run rescue groups. That's not to say that there aren't reputable individuals doing private rescue, but you'll need to do your homework to find out if they are reputable and trustworthy. Again, local organized rescue groups cna probably help you there as well.

 

Hope all that didn't confuse you more and actually is some help to you.

 

J.

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Hi Darryl,

 

Another vote here for rescue! Puppies are a handful... can't even imagine what a full breed bc one would be like.

 

I've always loved the breed, and said I would never have one because of their needs. Guess what? I have one sitting right next to me. I fostered him and failed fostering 101. BUT, he's not typical, I can get away with 2 walks a day and some play time and training. He has 2 speeds, slug and hyper though. He's a perfect pet BC, intelligent, and a great active companion that knows how to chill.

 

A rescue group will find the perfect girl/guy for your lifestyle. I believe adult dogs can bond just as much as young puppies, plus you can get a full nights sleep!

 

Good Luck!

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I have to agree with most of the posters above, especially about rescue. I've had dogs all my life, and during my married life (20 years), we've always had 3. I've had herding dogs, a collie and a shepherd, and a few mixes, but they certainly didn't prepare me for a bc. I rescued mine from the shelter in July, and he's really something. He's about two years old, extremely intelligent, extremely active, and very eager to please. But he's either asleep or running. We spend a lot of play time outside (I should look like a toothpick instead of a feather pillow), and when inside, he teases my other guys until they're all running through the house like a herd of elephants. But I don't mind, especially when he looks at me with those loving puppy eyes and lays his head in my lap as if to say "thank you for saving me." It was great taking on a dog that was already housebroken and pretty much obedience trained. Shame on and thank you to whomever threw him away or let him escape and didn't go looking for him. They gave me a wonderful gift. As I said, I rescued him from a shelter, but I did speak with rescue programs as I searched for the right dog in my area. They know their dogs, and will connect you with the best match for your lifestyle. And there are so many that need homes. Good luck, and please consider rescuing one of the lost pups out there in need of a home.

 

Terry

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Guest Wolverine

As a new Border Collie owner, I can assure you that the dog requires intensive attention. I was fortunate to be able to get my BC from a reputable local breeder (EyeSpy Border Collies in Niantic, CT); she has no special abilities, and was intended to be a companionship dog. 4-month-old Annie (also known as Rosemary's Baby, Osama's Revenge, Conan the Destroyer, Master of Disaster, and others) has proven to be more of a handful than we anticipated. LONG morning and evening walks are fine, as long as they are supplemented by additional walks during the day (fortunately, my wife does not work, and can be home with Annie); I take her for long walks at 5:30 in the morning before going to work, and in the evening when I get home from work, while my wife takes her for shorter walks during the day. We have found that the extra-long 26-foot Flexi leash is ideal for walking her, as it allows her short windsprints without waiting for us. At 60 years old, I am also in better shape than I have ever been; must be all the walking (and sometimes running)...LOL. At this age, she still has some difficulty with frisbees, but loves to chase balls; we started with a tennis ball, but have found that a Super Ball really poses a challenge for her. She is high-eneregy perpetual motion. When all is said and done, do I regret getting her? MOST DEFINITELY NOT!!! We have never had such an affectionate and intelligent dog, and my only regret is that I did not have Border Collies years ago. Her "sister" (a 10-year-old Border Collie/Belgian Shepherd mix) might not agree, as Annie is also a pawful for her; but she is adapting (mostly by finding ways to hide...LOL).

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Wow, you guys and gals are great! Thanks for all the wonderful insight! And a special thanks to those of you who took the time to write a long post. Im continuing my reasearch and am fairly certain that the BC is the right breed for me.

 

To clarify a few things.....When I say that Id like to bring him to work and keep him outside. He would be in a large grassy area about 40 ft from the shop in which I work. I would be able to go out and see him at least once an hour. And if the day were to be a long one, I have an hour at lunch to play with him.

 

I guess what had me worried was the general reputation out there that BCs are an uncontrollable breed unless you live on a farm or something. But it seems to me that if Im willing to make the committment and spend the time with him, then things should be okay. Ya know, if I wanted a dog that wa just going to sit around the house, Id get a bulldog or something. But in doing my research, the BC seemed to be everything I was looking for in a dog. Like I said, I just wanted to get the opinions of those who have been there and own them.

 

As far as rescues are concerned....I would absolutely like to get a dog from them for all the above-mentioned reasons. Its just that Im a bit intimidated by the applications and all the qualifications that they desire. I mean I do have a job and I dont have a large house or a large, fenced-in yard. I dont have a vet reference yet. Dont get me wrong, I absolutely agree that they should be duly strict on whom they allow to adopt....its just that I dont think I meet their critieria...

 

Thanks for all the thoughts and opinions and references! Keep 'em coming!

 

Darryl

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I can't recommend any dog training books because really the only one we read was Puppies for Dummies and then SAR dog books. From our experience most of the obedience training we did learn actually came from that dummy book and common sense.

 

Our BC Piper is 3, she turned 3 on 10/9 and is still a puppy. We got her as a puppy. We did try the rescue route but live in Alaska, didn't have a yard at the time, etc. I agree, the rescue applications can seem a bit daunting, but from all I've learned on these boards is that the next BC I get will be a rescue. I'm like a stalker on the rescue website's...but a good one.

 

Here's what we do. Husband gets up every morning at 6 a.m. to take Piper to the track and throws the frisbee for her. 8 a.m. off we both go to work. 12 p.m. Husband is home for lunch, lets Piper out to do her bizness. 5 p.m. we come home and it is my turn. I take Piper for a walk/hike at the minimum for a hour...she gets this every day. Like RDM, I could probably let it slide one day, but if it went on for a few days there would be hell to pay by Piper. Piper is always "On" she doesn't have an off switch like some dogs...even when we're at work, I'm sure she is re-wiring the house, fixing the garbage disposal, tearing down wall-paper in one clean swoop and then acts like she has been sleeping when we come home.

 

And then at night, especially when she was younger, we did a lot of obedience training with her...I remember teasing my husband about it but he would walk around the house for hours with Piper on a long leash, hiding stuff from her, etc...at 10 weeks Piper could go into a sit/stay for 30 seconds...we were the stars of our Puppy Class...and that is how we got recruited for Search and Rescue.

 

My advice, be prepared to dedicate a portion of your life to your BC. Make sure it has a job, in our case Piper's job is SAR. Our lifestyle lends itself very well to Piper and there isn't any other way I'd want it. Also, thanks to Piper I walk every day too, rain or shine, snow or sleet. Somedays I look at her when it is blowing 50 mph and raining sideways and I say...do you really need a walk and she looks at me, cocks her head and barks... thank god for gortex, gortex tennis shoes, gortex rain pants, gortex rain jacket

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Our rescue group used to evaluated every application on its own merits. There were no "wrong" answers. Just wrong attitudes. The questions are there as an easy way to help match situations to dogs.

 

Then the questions help guide interviewers to discuss potential problem points. In my experience, I used this dialog to try to determine the difference between those who were serious and those that shied from the committment.

 

We had volunteers in our own organization who lived in houses with no yards, who worked long hours, and even lived in apartments. We couldn't dismiss such people as adopters, then, could we? We knew very well that what matters is the committment, not the circumstances.

 

A reputable breeder would have the very same issues that a rescuer would. If they didn't, you would be buying from the wrong breeder.

 

I'd advise you to go for it, contact rescue, and talk to them. If nothing else they can tell you who the reputable breeders in the area are.

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