Sheep breed suggestions..

[Alicia]

Hey all, So.. I've decided that in the next 4-6 months I want to get 3 sheep to use for Dally. I want sheep that'll be easy to work with, dog broke.

 

So.. my question is.. Does anyone have a suggestions on breeds? Something that is hardy, easy to keep (As far as feeding goes), preferably a wool sheep, as to keep the difference between the sheep and my goats obvious to Dally, any age as long as it's healthy and well dog broke, good for beginner sheep owner and good to a beginning dog.

 

any suggestions on breed, age, breeder (in Montana), etc. I need cheap sheep as I have limited funds to pay for them. So maybe some older ewes that arent holding their own in the herd or.. I dunno.. any suggestions would be great!

[amc]

I wouldn't worry about Dally not telling the difference between sheep and goats. She will know; it's not how the animals look, it's how they respond to the dog's pressure, and sheep and goats respond VERY differently.

 

Hair sheep can be quite nice for training dogs, if they are dog broke and sensible. Their upkeep is similar to what you're used to with the goats, they don't need shearing, they are easy keepers and they do grow a wooly coat to keep them warm in the winter.

 

Good luck!

[Alicia]

I just assumed it would be easier, if they really can easily tell the difference then great I'm up for anything.

 

Is there a smaller size sheep, hair or wool, that may be easier to keep feeding and space wise?

[NCStarkey]

Alicia wrote: "Is there a smaller size sheep, hair or wool, that may be easier to keep feeding and space wise?"

 

Border Cheviots are a smaller sized wool sheep breed, and they can thrive on a less feed/hay/forage than most other breeds. Border Cheviots "can be" wonderful sheep for dog training, as they are very responsive and usually do not become "stale". However, Border Cheviots are usually quite "squirelly" and probably better suited to someone with an understanding of livestock behavior and management.

 

Good luck in your search.

[Pipedream Farm]

Good morning Nancy.

 

Mark

[Smokjbc]

Hi,

 

I really like my Kathadin types, especially the few I have crossed with Dorper. They are very nice sheep in general and the dorper crosses make them a little heavier, requiring the dog to push them a bit sometimes. The Kathadins require no shearing, I only have 2 dorper cross ewes that have to have their backs sheared in the summer. They are very healthy, cheap and if you decide to have lambs, good mothers. I have had to cull a few individual idiots over the years but most of them have a very consistent temperament.

 

My only concern would be the winters in Montana- but I do have a friend in Elko, NV who has Kathadins and they do fine there in the cold winter with good shelter. And definitely have someone show you with an experience dog how to dog break them. They are good sheep but if they beat a dog to the gate or "win" they are not stupid and will try it over and over again.

 

Oh... edited to add- feeding wise they are very easy. I don't have pasture here, but they seem to thrive on alfalfa. I don't even grain the ewes w/ lambs, and they are fat and stay in good condition. However, I would imagine they probably would need more to get through a colder winter. Space wise- I've found that my small flock does not need alot of space (they rotate between a set of pens attached to a 1/4 acre arena and a 2 1/2 acre lot w/ minimal grass) but I do think that they need to be able to spread out for disease and stress prevention.

[Pipedream Farm]

The Katahdin breed originated at the Piel Farm in north central Maine.......

 

OK State U: Breeds of Sheep

I know it's not MT, but north central Maine does get cold.

 

Mark

[Smokjbc]

Well, I guess they should be ok then .

[Alicia]

Thanks guys! I'd like a breed that needs more push then being squirelly. Partly because I dont want Dally intimidated and partly because wont that help with cattle, having to push then harder, as cattle tend to stand up to a dog more, not sure if that is true but it made sense to me.

 

So, Kathadins and Kathadin/Dorpers tend to be heavier. I'd be purchasing dog-broke ewes or wethers as I wouldnt want to try it on ones that arent dog broke, dont want to ruin my pup

 

Thanks NCStarkey, I'll probably stay away from them for the squirrely reason, but if I find some that are unusally dog broke and heavy it's good to know that they are smaller and easy to keep.

[NCStarkey]

Alicia wrote, "Thanks NCStarkey, I'll probably stay away from them for the squirrely reason, but if I find some that are unusally dog broke and heavy it's good to know that they are smaller and easy to keep."

 

You are certainly welcome for the information about Border Cheviots! Glad that I could help! However, if you do find some of these little buggers that are "heavy", please let us know so we can contact the people at Ripley's Believe It or Not!

 

Regards,

nancy

[Alicia]

Lol, will do, but it they are that flighty I probably wont lol

[Black Watch Debatable]

I totally love my Border Cheviots, but when it was time to start my newest dog Lu on stock, I took her to a trainer [Anna Guthrie] with some slow & steady knee-knockers

 

My Cheviots are very canny --- they can take off like [chunky] gazelles if the mood strikes, or stand and stare a weak dog out of the pasture. I love 'em tons. They are bold, smart, independent sheep, and beautiful:

 

 

[Link to more info on sheep breeds.]

 

One of my vets told me that of all the sheep she worked with back in the day, Cheviots were her least favorite because they were the hardest to handle. Nonsense! They're just... spirited. [After maybe half a dozen times working at Anna's, I got brave enough to try Lulu on the Cheviots. So far, so good...]

[juliepoudrier]

Originally posted by Black Watch Debatable:

My Cheviots are very canny --- they can take off like [chunky] gazelles if the mood strikes, or stand and stare a weak dog out of the pasture. I love 'em tons. They are bold, smart, independent sheep, and beautiful:

And they make such cute lambs!

 

]

 

But my favorites are my Scottish blackface:

 

 

They are more trouble than the cheviots in that they require twice yearly shearing, but otherwise they are hardy (and canny). My other favorite breed is karakuls (also require twice yearly shearing):

 

I agree with Nancy and Luisa that border cheviots are not for the faint of heart (or the non-fleet of foot and untrained dog--in general), but they sure are pretty to look at, almost as pretty as my Scottish blackface (also not for the faint of heart/untrained dog). And the karakuls, well, they won't win any beauty contests, but I love 'em anyway!

 

J.

[Alicia]

I think they're all so cute! Lol I'd take any of em if they were untrained dog friendly. lol

[Jordi44]

My personal opinion is that I would DEFINITELY stay away from Cheviots - Border or North Country. Border Cheviots are the only thing I've ever seen that can jump 6 feet in any direction without any prior movement or warning. I've found that a lot of the truly smaller breeds are a lot like small dog breeds - got to get before they're got.

 

I don't have any personal experience with them, but the true Southdowns (not the 10' tall ones crossed with Columbias) always seemed cute and are definitely smaller (sometimes now called Babydolls). There are also Romneys - although, I've heard they can have a stubborn streak (can't we all). My daughter has just gotten us started in Lincolns. They're a bit bigger and heavier, but I could see them being a nice sheep for dogs and a beginner, as they do seem to have a milder temperament. I would think the degree of dog broke would be more important at this point than breed. I would also check around with sheep people in your area and see how different breeds/types do. Most true wool breeds do ok to great on a mostly forage diet, but all sheep need some supplement at one time or another. My old crossbreds I started with as a kid were probably the nicest sheep I ever had on a friendliness and hardiness basis (that good ol' hybrid vigor at work, I guess). That's my 2 cents. Good luck - they're a lot different that goats, but in a lot of ways, I think sheep are easier - at least easier to keep in.

[Pipedream Farm]

A couple years back we got 4 romneys from our neighbor who has a flock of about 40. They were wonderful to work; however, they did not have the stamina that our katahdins have. Even in the winter they would stress much sooner than the katahdins while being worked, even by our open dogs.

 

Mark

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

While we are on the subject of sheep breeds, has anyone worked or (better yet) raised Columbias or crosses? I'm considering trying out a ram for my terminal cross lambs. I used to have some ewes but I was new to raising sheep then and all I remember is that they were among the less imaginative of my bunch (a good thing).

[juliepoudrier]

Alicia,

Mark makes a good point. My wool sheep are hardy (especially the more primitive breeds like the cheviots and the scotties--and my tunis seem to stay pretty fat on next to nothing in the way of forage), but they do seem to stress more easily when being worked, even in cold weather.

 

Also, when considering breeds, consider SIZE and what you can handle. I love Lincolns and Bliefaced and Border leicesters, but they are a bit bigger than I can easily handle for things like foot trimming. My neighbor's Lincoln has an absolutely gorgeous fleece/pelt, but boy is she a big 'un!

 

If I were looking for straight hardiness and ease of care and working, I would probably choose a hair sheep breed. But since I also like to look at my sheep, am interested in rare breed conservation, and have use for the wool, I prefer wool breeds. As you seem to be considering sheep mainly as a starting point for your dog before moving on to cattle, I think I'd go with a hair sheep breed *or* whatever is most popular (and therefore easy to get) in your area.

 

Becca,

Maybe you can contact someone on the Columbia site for information?

 

http://columbiasheep.org/info.htm

 

Do they have wool on their faces (can't tell from the pics on the site above as they show only lambs)? I'm guessing if they were instrumental in creating good range sheep that they would be suitable for your purposes, but what do I know? (And don't ask me to help trim feet on a 300-lb ram! )

 

J.

[Alicia]

Thanks guys! I'll be sure and stay away from those breeds that you've noted are flighty, I really worry about ruining Dally before she even gets started lol

That's my 2 cents. Good luck - they're a lot different that goats, but in a lot of ways, I think sheep are easier - at least easier to keep in.

They have to be easier to keep in then my goats! lol My wether Nubian/Boer is an escape artist, he got out of a 5ft pen with hog wire and electric and we never did figure out how lol

 

Even in the winter they would stress much sooner than the katahdins while being worked, even by our open dogs.

Well stressing cant be good! I dont want to stress em out get em sick or make them flighty because they are stressed. What kinda stress are we talking? like heat stress from the wool and/or temps?

 

I think I'd go with a hair sheep breed *or* whatever is most popular (and therefore easy to get) in your area.

That's what I am thinking. It sounds like the hair sheep are easier to keep, hardy and laid back. If I can get a hold of them in this area, which Amy has put me in contact with a Kathadin breeder here in Montana that I'm going to contact when I am finacially ready and Dally is old enough, to see if he has any really solid, older maybe, VERY VERY dog broke sheep. If I cant find a hair breed in the area though, I may go for whatever cheap, REALLY dog broke sheep I can get. As you said, this is just to start Dally on, once she is going, and ready for more difficult sheep and/or cows. I will probably find them a new home so that I can get some cattle.

 

Thanks guys! You've been LOADS of help! Keep the suggestions coming it's good to know what breeds have what temperments.

[Bill Fosher]

Becca,

 

Columbias are rotten sheep that are ill-suited to humid climates and are most definitely not a terminal sire breed. They are a wool and frame sheep for arid country. I got a few wethers and ewes in with my Western sheep, and they were just as bad as the Rambouillets only half again as big.

 

Just ask anyone who raises show Dorsets.

[Fetch]

As a Dorset person... Columbias suck.

 

Terminal sire breeds are NOT wool breeds. They are breeds like hamps, shrops, suffolks, etc.

 

Fetch

[juliepoudrier]

Fetch,

When you say they are not wool breeds, do you mean that they are not bred mainly for their wool? Because they certainly are wool sheep, and from what I have read about Hampshires and Shropshires at least some consideration was given in their development to wool quality....

 

J.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Sigh. I keep getting funneled back to those darned Suffolks.

 

I don't suppose half-Hamps lose that giant head and shoulders?

 

Julie, if you'd seen the Columbias side by side with the "multi-purpose" ewes in my old flock, you'd have seen the diff immediately in their wool.

[juliepoudrier]

What's the difference (honest question, since obviously I can't see them side by side)? From my reading, the Columbia was also intended to improve the fleeces of range ewes (unless I've misread, which is entirely possible), so I would expect it to have decent wool at least.

 

I suppose my question to Fetch was more to get him/her to clarify meaning. I'm guessing the s/he meant that none of those breeds are prized by handspinners, nor do they produce the quality of wool of, say, a merino, but I contend that they are indeed wool sheep, just perhaps not bred primarily *for* wool. Does that make sense?

 

Oh, and perhaps if you found someone breeding "classic" Suffolks as opposed to those things that are used as club lambs and show sheep, you would find that they aren't as awful as the reputation they've gained would imply?

 

J.

[Deacon Dog]

Becca, have you thought about Southdowns? No first-hand experience, but I've heard they make a pretty good terminal sire if you're more interested in carcass quality than mass. I met a guy at a trial who runs a Southdown experimental program for Clemson University and could probably find his number if you're interested.