Shoofly Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 You know, this got me thinking. I believe i've heard that folks overseas would not take one of our white sticks onto a trial course, as it might be considered a training aid. Crooks and such would be okay but not those sticks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgt Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I've met some handlers/judges over here in the new world who feel the same way about the white sticks. charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Most of us use those white sticks when training, we don't go out to practice with fancy crooks. If a dog is used to the white stick during training, he/she might respect that visual aid more on the trial field as opposed to a crook, wouldn't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I use a red stock stick at home with the dogs and the cattle. It is a bit bigger and heavier than the white training stick. Should I get a smaller wooden crook (the kind I can get at the feed store, I can't afford a nice one) for the occasional Nov/Nov class I run my dog in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Yep, i think that's the idea actually and why some people think it shouldn't go on the trial field (I don't really have an opinion on it myself). I actually use lots of different things when i train instead of just the white stick. I have some white pvc longer poles and some grey pvc "crooks" that i use sometimes, and i've even just grabbed a branch off the ground if i'm working on shedding and don't already have another kind of stick in my hand. I find i carry a stick around in training less and less all the time. The white stick seems pretty acceptable around here but i'm sure eyebrows would be raised if someone walked out with a buggy whip, which people use about the same way in training. It's kind of funny, i'd just gotten my crook out to take to the trial this weekend to use instead of my white stick, right before this came up here. Coincidences... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyO Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Suppose we were overseas and always carried a real crook when we went out to train our dogs. Now when we went to a trial and raised up our real crook, would this not be considered a training aid? White stick or real crook, what is the difference? Nancy O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Sue - i think you can use either and be fine, in this area at least. Both seem to be accepted around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Thanks, Robin. I am used to working with my stock stick and find that, if I try to use something shorter or lighter in weight, I do something stupid - like throw the stick or something when I move it! I guess I am one of those people who really needs some consistency in physical things - using something different tends to throw me off. I would think that if you use a particular kind of stick or crook in training, it wouldn't make a difference to the dog on the field if you used it or something else (as long as it wasn't more "obvious" in appearance), but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if it would. Is there a length limit on crooks/sticks used in trials? My stick is a bit longer than the normal crook or stick. I guess that could give me an "advantage" when using it to control the stock (as if anything could give me an advantage). What my dogs needs is a competent handler and practice on sheep! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Sue - there really aren't any rules about crooks and such. I think it mostly comes down to what's accepted in a particular area. Like, it seems frowned upon to use a white stick overseas (at least that's what i've heard). Here, you'd endure lots of raised eyebrows if you took a whip to the post with you but i'm sure well more than half of the handlers around here take a white stick to the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I guess then I will stick with my stock stick since I am comfortable with it. Besides, I pose no threat to anyone on the trial field so I hope no one would be offended by my stick! Heck, I can't even blow the whistle! It would have been a good excuse to get a nice wooden crook, if I'd had the money! Thanks, Robin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 When I lived and trialed in GA, there was a guy that tried to go on the field with a stick off a tree - at least twice that I saw. Each time, the judges told him he could not take the stick to the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Funny, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Well, I guess I'm lucky I won't ever have to worry about trialling in Georgia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 So which do you take to the post (for those who take something with a curved handle): shepherd?s crook or walking stick? More info than you probably wanted to have?.. Stick Dressing THE ART OF STICK MAKING BORDER STICK DRESSERS ASSOCIATION For photos of Sticks by George Snaith look at the Gallery Sticks by Norman Tulip Scottish Horn Carved Crooks and Sticks Getting closer to the answer.... British Stickmakers Guild CLASS A: PLAIN WALKING STICK, HORN Both nose in and nose out qualify for this class but must be of a size not to qualify for working crook. CLASS B: PLAIN HORN, CROOK Neck or leg, to be plain with nothing on the handle or the shank and be of working size 3. The Shepherd's Crook suggests the length of the staff distinguishes between walking stick and crook. Mark (having a slow day at work) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgt Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I acquired a blind-person's cane, which is sort of like a mini-crook: hollow metal construction, very light, 4 feet or so long, curved handle, painted white with the red on the end, etc. I have used it a few times during competition. I find it somehow appropriate for my performances on the trial field. charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I have to say the reason i use the white stick is you can stick it in the ground easily and have it out of the way until time to go to the pen. I do actually prefer to use my crook at the pen though, i like the feel of the crooked part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Thanks Mark! I was having a slow day at work, too. Now I have something to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Thanks Mark! One of these days i'm going to get a crook with a BC carved on it like on that last page you put up. I love those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I love those crooks with the BC's on them. I have also seen a beautiful one that has a ram's head on the butt of the handle. A few years ago some friends of mine gave me a crook for my birthday that had won at some UK stick competition. Instead of a thistle it has an acron and the green leaves go up the nose of the handle. It is lovely, but I am too afraid to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I have a nice one Joan gave me years ago. It's really simple but very pretty and I've used it some at trials. It's just the right length. I just put it back in the van yesterday to use this weekend. Speaking of which, is the weekend ever going to get here? I also have one with a black horn handle that Spottie won for me at Nancy's trial a couple of years ago. I keep that one hanging in my living room for show. I thought it was a great trophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I have a simple buffalo horn crook that I have had mine in my truck to use at Edgeworth and Lena's, but with my silly superstition's I still grab the white stick. Come to think of it - that white stick didn't do one thing for me at Lena's on Saturday or Sunday... so the crook at Red Top it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Mary gave Renee and me each one for helping at one of her last trials in Libertytown MD. She had Hartford Logan get them made in Ireland with our name carved in the handle. I used to just keep it hanging on the wall, but I thought that was a waste so now I use it most every day. At first I was only using it for trials but I found it unfamiliar in my hand and decided to use it every day so I was relaxed with it at trials. Renee still uses the white stick, I think because the crook handle is too big for her. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Glen Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 I'm with Sue. I always use my white stick because if I change anything when I go out to trial I'm afraid I'll do something stupid. I have enough trouble remembering things, I don't want to be thinking how the weight in my hand is different. Recently tho, I have been starting to use Scott's crook only because I have to have my hands free to whistle and sometimes you can't stick the white sticks in the ground. I end up bending over to pick up my stick off the ground(somehow it doesn't seem to distract the judge to my advantage) and messing up my 3rd leg of the drive. The crook can just go over my arm and it works a little better. Jenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCS Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Hey Jennifer, Have you tried holding the white stick between your thumb & forefinger while you whistle w/ your pinkies? It takes some practice but you can do it. I agree with you the crook on the arm is a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Glen Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 Yeah, I can do that, but it goes back to too much to think about. I'd rather not have anything extra in my hand. Have you tried the bending over to pick up your stick thing? Has it helped you with the judges? YOU might have some success with that one! I gained too much weight this year. Jenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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