OT - The price of gasoline

[Hector]

Has the price of gasoline impacted your budget? Where do you think the gas prices will be in one year, two years, five years from now? Will you still be burning gasoline in your private car twenty years from now, or will some other fuel replace it? These are important questions and unfortunately good answers seem to be in short supply. Here is a link to an article about the future of energy that is the best that I have read.

 

THE END OF THE AGE OF OIL

[nancy]

We aren't driving to visit our 2 out of state kids, as much as we'd like to do so.

 

My 1997 Civic gets ~35 mpg city and ~40 mpg highway. And it has under 45,000 miles on it. Chuck's 1997 Accord is not quite as good on mileage and has ~50,000 because it has more trunk for a week-long trip.

 

Now that we hear low-sulpher diesel will be the standard, we think our next car will be a diesel. Especially if we can get one like the Ford we rented in England and loved. We are also considering a SmartCar.

 

We also own and ride at least 3 bicycles each and walk whenever possible. We also do our best to consolidate trips. It does help that we are retired (although that also means we are living on "fixed "incomes - which seem a tad broken).

[BustopherJones]

As someone who has worked in automotive-related companies for the last 16 years, I can only say that American automotive companies should be ashamed of themselves. Technologies have existed for sometime that singificantly reduce the need for petroleum-based products to power automobiles. I do not mean electric cars, as there are still too many drawbacks to a pure battery-powered car. But alternatives such as E85 (85% ethanol, 15% petroleum) and biodiesel (which is basically organic-based product with some slight mixture of petroleum) have been suppressed by the petroleum interests in this country, while technology that would significantly improve fuel economy (e.g., GDI, or Gasoline Direct Injection, and Diesel Common Rail engines) have been introduced in Europe but not in the US.

 

With that said, be prepared for things to get worse before they get better (IF they ever get better). The American oil companies have gotten away with their price-gouging thanks to their friends and allies in the White House, and are certainly not about to willingly relinquish the obscene profits and bonuses they are now realizing.

 

As to the impact on my budget, suffice it to say that thanks to the greed of American oil companies, I have far less discretionary income today than I had before George W. decided to create an oil crisis by decimating the Iraqi oil industry. (Has anyone noticed that there doesn't seem to be much talk nowadays about getting the Iraqi oil industry back up and operational, while American oil companies can pump the same oil in the US that they used to and get the grossly inflated world price for it?) I choose a vehicle for trips based on gas mileage rather than comfort, and drive far less. Due to the distance I drive to work, my choice of vehicles is dictated by fuel economy, rather than by the safety rating of the vehicle (as used to be the case).

 

And now I will get off my soapbox...

[Maralynn]

But alternatives such as E85 (85% ethanol, 15% petroleum) and biodiesel (which is basically organic-based product with some slight mixture of petroleum) have been suppressed by the petroleum interests in this country,

While I'm all for alternative fuel sources, with ethanol you still have to consider the energy (and oil) it takes to produce the fuel. I'm not sure how much that it is, but it's worth taking into consideration. I think that greater vehicle fuel efficiency is a better way to go. I like the whole hybrid concept.

 

The American oil companies have gotten away with their price-gouging thanks to their friends and allies in the White House, and are certainly not about to willingly relinquish the obscene profits and bonuses they are now realizing.

Big pet peeve - Oil companines do make a profit, but not as much as the government through taxes. And I would point out that like it or not, oil companies are in business to make a profit. Should the government regulate, say, the price of milk if the price goes up to $4 a gallon?

 

FWIW, my family members all drive vehicles that get 28-40 mpg highway - mainly Saturns. I drive about 150-200 miles a week, so while I hate to pay $3+ a gallon, my cost for gas has not gone up that much.

[BustopherJones]

...with ethanol you still have to consider the energy (and oil) it takes to produce the fuel. I'm not sure how much that it is, but it's worth taking into consideration.

The cost to mass-produce ethanol and biodiesel is comparatively high today because the efficient volume production of these commodites has not been put in place; a little help from the government (good luck on that one, by the way) through investment, or supporting such investment through tax incentives, would go a long way. Perhaps the $14 Billion tax break that the government gave to the oil industry might have been put to better use.

Should the government regulate, say, the price of milk if the price goes up to $4 a gallon?

If milk was a commodity necessary to the economic survival and well-being of the country, then most certainly I would support regulation. Further, the oil companies have fundamentally created an oligopoly where prices are fixed because there is no competition. Companies with consciences target to make a fair and reasonably profit, and try to avoid crippling the economy; obviously, the oil companies do not have such altruistic concern for the way they are decimating the economic survival and standard of living for the American people. So, yes, I would be in favor of reinstating regulation of the oil industry.

 

Oh, and one more technology I forgot to mention: fuel cells. They are practical and feasible, but would also need some sort of assistance (perhaps in the form of tax incentives) to become economically viable.

[Dixie_Girl]

Just because Dubya was in oil, of course you gotta throw all the blame at his feet. Clinton was in for 8yrs. with a vice pres. that thought ALL combustible engines should be outlawed. Where did it get us? The bottom line is, until the consumer demands different, the industry will not provide different. Right now, for examble, the technology is there for solar power to completely run everything in a house. But how many people have it? Yes, it is expensive right now, because those producing the equipment is trying to make as much money as possible. When more people turn to it, the price will come down. VCRs at one time cost close to $1000, now you can get a DVD/VCR for $100. There are lots of things out there and we will get to them, WHEN consumers demand it. NOT the guvment, not the oil companies, not the car industries. I drive a 1977 F150. I love my truck. I get 11mpg. But it's all metal, it looks good, and I will drive it till I don't have a license or they run out of gas. When they come up with an alternative, I will convert the truck over. I don't care what it runs on, long as it runs. I remember the gas crash of the early 70s. My God, you would have thought the end of the world was at hand. Things will NEVER change until the people demand it. I don't care who is in the white house, or how much the oil companies line their pockets.

[jrid]

My dream car is a Crown Victoria that guzzles gas, but you can pass people on the highway with the air conditioning going full blast. Or I could drive it up Black Mountain without having to get into the slow truck lane. That said, I drive a 2002 Saturn SL that gets about 35mph. I have to turn the air off on hot days when I pull a hill. Heck, I have to turn the air off on a hot day just to get a good start on the flat road.

BUT, I can get where I need to go, it just might take me a few minutes longer to do it.

[Maralynn]

We in America still pay a far less percentage for our gas than most other countries. And we can spend more of our money on extras for our comfort and enjoyment.

 

The cost to mass-produce ethanol and biodiesel is comparatively high today because the efficient volume production of these commodites has not been put in place;

A couple years ago there was a proposal to put an ethanol plant about 70 miles south of where I live. But many of the local residents fought it, because they didn't want it in their back yard .

 

My dream car is a Crown Victoria that guzzles gas, but you can pass people on the highway with the air conditioning going full blast. Or I could drive it up Black Mountain without having to get into the slow truck lane. That said, I drive a 2002 Saturn SL that gets about 35mph. I have to turn the air off on hot days when I pull a hill.

 

My boss drives a Lincoln navigator. Up until recently, I drove a '95 Saturn sl1. I enjoy driving her car, but you couldn't beat mine for cost efficiency! Her's cost about $80 to fill the tank, while mine was about $25!

[stwilliams]

Let me put i hands in this talk. I am a mechanic that works at a chevy dealership and speclize in truck with diesel engine but work on all cars and trucks. like most poeple i see more poeple buying and me fixing small cars but these car that are smaller can not handle the demand an average family of four does in a week. i am seeing more and more come in with more major of repairs that great for me but for you or them that is bad more money coming out of thier pockets.

 

the goverment has so many tariffs on E-85 and other fuels that are imported to the USA it is unreal. some country only run of that type of fuel like south america

[Gary M]

Well, since I can not regulate the cost of petroleum based products, and being a free market capitalist, do not believe the government should either, I did the next best thing... invested in energy based mutual funds.

 

Now I actually make more from those in a month then the increase in the price of gas costs me so in effect the more they charge and make, the more I make.

 

If you can't beat em, profit by them.

 

 

(BTW I drive a 1998 Continental with 150,000 miles on it that gets about 23 mpg and I drive upwards of 600 miles per week.)

 

edited to add:

Would you rather be able to buy $3.25 a gallon gas or have every station out of $2.25 a gallon gas? I do remember the Carter era gas lines and shortages

[Dixie_Girl]

Gary, I like your style!

[IronHorse]

Am I concerned with the price of gasoline?

 

Not really.

As long as I have the convenince of pulling one of my gas guzzlers into any gas station of my choice and purchasing the gasoline that I require well I am happy to stand there and pump it into my tank and grumble about the price and then pay for it.

 

Do I concider operating economy when purchasing a vehicle?

 

Not really.

My priorities are safty, performance and realiability and if it gets more then 10 or 15 "real" mpg then all the better.

 

Do I think the price of oil will increase?

 

Of course I think it will continue to increase as long as we are a fossil fuel based economy.

 

I am 100% confident that the "powers that be in the USA" will see to it that we shall continue to get the lionshare of the world's oil as long as it is prudent to our economy and way of life.

 

The purchasing of gasoline in this country is optional and regardless of the price it is an option that I personally want to see continue at least until a viable option becomes available.

 

Some rather interesting facts

 

The US Department of Defense (DoD) is the largest oil consuming government

 

body in the US and in the world

 

Military fuel consumption makes the Department of Defense the single largest

 

consumer of petroleum in the U.S.

 

Military fuel consumption for aircraft, ships, ground vehicles and facilities

 

makes the DoD the single largest consumer of petroleum in the U.S.

 

The US military is the biggest purchaser of oil in the world.

 

 

Under standard conditions the Army?s M-1 Abrams tank gets eight gallons per mile. In the heat of battle, however, the M-1 Abrams tank can eat up seven barrels ? 252 gallons (based on 36 British Imperial gallons per barrel) ? per hour.

 

1 non-nuclear aircraft carrier burns approx 3200 barrels per day.

(approximately the same amount as the entire country of Afghanistan)

 

An F-16 jet on a training mission ignites more fuel in a single hour than the

 

average car owner consumes in two years.

 

United States Oil consumption- 20,030,000 barrels per day (2005)

World Oil consumption-80,727,420 barrels per day (2005)

 

 

President George Herbert Walker Bush: I call upon Americans to

 

conserve.

Press: Will you elaborate?

President Bush: No

[Hector]

Since I started this thread, I will post my opinion. I admit to being an alarmist, but IMHO the world and especially the USA face an economic catastrophe as the supply of oil dwindles in the coming years. The US economy runs on oil and there is no substitute, as the CalTech article pointed out. People are generally na?ve and unaware of the problem. The news media doesn?t talk about the real issues.

 

If you Google ?proven oil reserves? you will see that the USA reserves are 21.4 billion barrels of oil. With a consumption rate of over 20 million barrels per day, and assuming we imported no oil, our own supply would run out after 1068 days -- just under three years.

 

Considering all the original oil supply in the ground, the USA reached the halfway point of its consumption in 1970. The cold hard truth is that the USA is almost out of oil. We depend on foreign oil to supply us with this indispensible commodity.

 

Meanwhile, the dynamics of the world oil market are undergoing major changes. On a global scale the world?s two most populous countries, China and India, are ramping up their economies. That requires a lot more oil. The market and price of oil is global, so the USA will be competing with all other nations for the limited and decreasing supply.

 

About half of the world?s oil supply comes from the Persian Gulf. It is transported via ultra-large oil tanker ships that must pass through the Strait of Hormuz. That strait is 34 miles wide at its narrowest point and the northern and eastern shores of the straits are Iran.

 

In case you haven?t been reading the world news lately, there in a high worldwide level of concern over Iran?s apparent program to build nuclear bombs. The radical Iranian leadership seems intent on going nuclear and are showing no sign of being willing to dismantle their program. It might very well be that the only way to stop Iran is through military force. But if that were done, Iran would almost certainly shut down the Strait of Hormuz to oil tanker traffic. That would cause economic chaos, the likes of which the world has never seen.

 

Under a worst case scenario, with the Strait of Hormuz closed down, the price of oil could easily triple overnight. The current $3 a gallon for gasoline in the USA could go to $10 a gallon in a couple of days. How would you deal with having to spend $250 to fill up your gas guzzler?

 

In the USA people think they are getting great gas mileage if they get better than 40 mpg. The Fiat car company, Italy?s largest automobile manufacturer, makes the Panda car which gets 65 mpg with its turbo diesel engine. With that high fuel mileage a tripling of the price of fuel would leave you at the same cost per mile as a driver who gets 20 mpg at today?s gas prices.

 

If US consumers had been smart they would have been buying fuel efficient vehicles instead of gas guzzlers for the past 20 years. But no, they wanted size and luxury and ignored fuel economy. We have dug ourselves into a major hole with our own ignorance. That could easily come back to haunt us if a major disaster, such as a serious confrontation with Iran, were to happen in the global oil market. If you are currently driving a gas guzzler, you may want to consider unloading it while it is still worth something.

[ErinKate]

Gas prices have not caused me to change anything. I probably should, but not yet. I don't even know what gas milage my truck gets. (yes, sad but true)

Over $4, I may consider buying a smaller vehicle. Right now, just today gas in Ocala Florida is $2.58!!!!! Never thought I would be happy to see it over $2!! lol

[Dixie_Girl]

In Laurens, the next "big" town from me, they had reg. at $2.46 a gal. and if you bought a gift card and used it to pay for gas they take an additional .03 off.

[Maralynn]

Well, I just saw gas at the cheapest it's been around here for a couple months - $2.68.

 

I've got a credit card that has given me 5% back on gas, but they're about to change it to 2%.

[C Crocker]

<<<<<,I do remember the Carter era gas lines and shortages >>>>>>

 

 

I remember the gas lines, but at least in CA those lines were in 1973 on for a time, not late 1960's. I remember the date because I had a brand new 1973 Ford pick up and I bought aa locking gas cap for it, just in case.

[Claire Owen]

You think your prices are high, you should see ours!! I cant beleive it. You measure yours in gallons yeah? I think I've converted it all correctly. A gallon of fuel over here would cost around about $7.10 ... its daft isnt it! (Its just under ?1 a litre here, if anyone wants to double check my maths )

 

The ways its going I hope they find some other way of fueling cars before to long!

[Dixie_Girl]

I believe that 4 litres is just a bit more than a gal. so you would be paying about $3 and some change. That's alot, but you have to consider that England imports ALL their oil, as far as I know. We are still producing oil. But the biggest prob at the MOMENT is not really a shortage of oil, it is a shortage of refineries. I believe that a new refinery has not been built since the 60s. They are running as much as they can, but it is hard to keep up with consumption when they are trying to refine oil for the amount of autos that has increased since then. I personally don't believe we are as short of oil as folks would have us believe, but I do know that when it DOES start to get down to the nubbins, we WILL have an alternative. Always have, always will. It's not like we will just go, oh, the world is out of oil, guess we gotta go back to horse and buggy! Mark my words. When it gets to that point, something will be "discovered"!

[Dixie_Girl]

Oh, oops! I just realized you were pricing in pounds and not dollars! Cripes! Y'all turned down the Euro, how about converting to the dollar?

[Claire Owen]

Prices went up when other countries joined the Euro, so at the min I'm grateful we didnt join that!!!! Cant see us converting to dollars anytime soon though

 

I know we have to import our oil but still, the prices are ridiculous at the min, in fact the prices of anything over here are stupid!!! And no-one knows why, I was watchin a TV program the other day about holiday-makers that come here. Non of them could believe how expensive everything is over here, especially the American tourists (or I could just understand them better than the other tourists ). They were all saying how they wouldnt stand for it in their counrties. I really dont know why we do.

 

Its about $1.88 for a litre if that makes it clearer

[trailrider]

In Canada, we`re down to $1.019 a litre. Recently it was even up to $1.139 a litre. Too bad we don`t keep our own production - most of it is sold. The $ is about 89 to 90 cents US.

[KrisK]

All depends where in Canada you live. It has been as 'low' as $1.04/litre and as high as $1.30/litre where I live. Right now, it's $1.08. Last August we were in around $1.45/litre. Yep, we produce LOTS of oil...but we don't get the direct benefits. So having the oil, doesn't necessarily = lower prices.

[Hector]

Washington Post 2005 Article tells the story: Alaska Oil Field's Falling Production Reflects U.S. Trend.

 

The message about the disparity between reality and what politicians say is very telling. The US dependence on foreign oil will only continue to grow. And if/when that foreign oil supply is interrupted or cut off, the US will be in deep trouble.

 

Claire -- The Fiat Panda Car, although not available in the USA, looks like a good car in today's world of high gas prices. The diesel version gets 76 mpg in highway driving, 62 mph in combined highway and urban driving. Do you know anything about the Panda? Is it popular? How do owners like it?

[Claire Owen]

I dont think I know anyone that has a Panda but it is a Fiat, I know the Fiat Punto is very popular and the owners love it... Dont know if the specs are similar to the Panda though