Boy's in the hospital

[juliepoudrier]

Miz,

I am not bothered that you are seeking answers, though surely you know that none of us is qualified to give you the kind of definitive answers you really need.

 

I am surprised that you say Boy *doesn't* have tick disease, when a quick Google search clearly indicates that Bartonella (which, according to one of your posts in the H&G section, Boy *does* have) is considered a tick-borne disease. Interestingly, one of the symptoms (in humans, at any rate) that is listed over and over again for Bartonellosis is lymphadenitis (enlargement of a lymph node(s)). In fact here is a link to a Centers for Disease Control article on B. henselae that clearly describes its tranmission in humans by ticks:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/eid/vol9no3/02-0133.htm

 

Here is another article. If you scroll down to the treatment section, you will see that doxycycline is indeed a treatment for Bartonellosis. I also noted that azithromycin was listed as a treatment, and you said Boy was on that.

 

http://www.lymeinfo.net/bartonella.html

 

In my quick scan of the literature, it seems that Bartonella is often a co-infective agent along with another TBD, most often Ehrlichia (now know as Neorickettsia). I know you said Boy's been tested twice, but the quality of the testing can play a big role in whether you get false positives or negatives, and in the world of tick disease a negative test result is *never* considered the final answer if the dog is presenting symptoms to the contrary.

 

And while I understand that the emergency vets are busy, I wouldn't settle for the "we're here only to stabilize" thing. In fact if TAMU offers emergency services, I would remove him from where he is and take him to the vet school pronto. At any rate, I think given what you pay for emergency services, a vet could sit down with you and spell out exactly what they're thinking and why and then what they're doing about it and why, but that's just my opinion, even if they don't see cases like Boy's every day (then again, since he's got so much going on, the folks at TAMU ought to be interested in the puzzle he presents).

 

Anyway, I won't bother to continue posting since you apparently aren't interested in the type of information I have to give, which is geared toward you educating yourself and becoming Boy's advocate with whatever vet he happens to be with at the time. I wish you and Boy luck.

 

J.

[Miztiki]

Julie, I like you, but your posts are really hurting me! Perhaps I should place him under your care and you could do a better job than me?

[Miztiki]

Look, maybe you're further ahead of me on research, but my research has shown that Azithromycin is more effective against B. henselae than Doxycycline, which is why the neuro stopped the Doxy and has him on the Azi.

 

The article you cited suggests that ticks can carry B. henselae but whether is can transmit the parasite or to how likely it is requires further studies. In other literature, cockroaches may also carry the parasite. Bartonella henselae is not generally considered a tick born disease from everything I have read, but it really doesn't matter. He has it. How he got it doesn't seem to be all that important. He does not have any of the other TBD's.

 

B. henselae can certainly cause enlarged lymph nodes. It's also one of the most common symptoms of active Toxoplasmosis. The two diseases are quite similar to eachother and manifest with similar or the same symptoms.

 

Boy's most recent tick tests were done at NCSU, considered to be the experts on TBD's, right? They are the ones who came up with his positive results for Toxo and Bart, and negative results for all of the other diseases.

 

I'm doing everything I can and learning everything I can. I don't know what more you want me to do.

[AK dog doc]

Ummm... I don't think Julie meant any of her posts as a personal attack. I think she's trying to get information across, and feels that possibly she has not made her point, which (if I understand correctly) is that there IS reason to consider some of the rickettsias, despite prior testing (etc). I took it more as "I understand that you've had test X with a negative, but you've also had test Y with a POSITIVE, and since X and Y are related, perhaps this should not be considered the final answer, but should be investigated more thoroughly." If I felt that a client (or friend) was not understanding my point, I would attempt to more clearly make my point, rather than just shrugging and going, "Oh, well! If they didn't understand me the first time, I guess that's their problem!" and wandering off. It is the mark of people who are caring, dedicated and committed that they will try it again, even in the face of opposition and/or lack of response. Not that I think you're deliberately being contentious or intentionally ignoring the other posts, but there's no way that Julie can know if you've read or understood her prior posts on the matter if you don't respond - so to me it seemed like a legit question to ask if you'd read and understood them, and/or to post further explanation.

 

I know you're stressed and tired, so I imagine that's why you (at least appear to be) taking her remarks personally, but I'm pretty sure she meant "If I were in your shoes, I'd do X" and did NOT mean, "You are incompetent to care for this dog and you should hand him over to me so I can do it right." You have, after all, asked for opinions and ideas, and while she (and several others) are correct in saying that they are not qualified or otherwise able to diagnose or treat Boy, they have tried to give you what you've asked for - opinions and thoughts on the matter. It's clear that this is a stressful situation, so it's easy to feel beset and as if all the world has it out for you - but I'm pretty sure Julie does NOT have it out for you, so I hope that you can let at least that one stressor go, chalk it up to exhaustion and misunderstanding and not let it ride you and make you feel attacked. I'd bet my truck that insult and personal attack was not the intent.

 

JMO, of course.

[Miztiki]

I'm sure Julie isn't trying to hurt me on purpose and I am a bit emotional right now. Her posts made me cry, made me feel like I wasn't doing right by my dog, and that hurt quite a bit.

 

Whatever is wrong with him is not simple nor are there any cut and dried answers.

 

I visited him in the wee hours last night and he was a bit dopey but looking much more comfortable. I'm going to visit again in a bit after the doc who saw him last night gets there. I called earlier today and they said he's the same as he was last night, so I think that's good. My husband is concerned about the amount of money we are spending on him and would like me to bring him home if at all possible.

[Tammy525]

Prayers, hugs, and well-wishes, again Michelle. I am sure, too, that Julie is just trying to help. It is very mature of you to realize that you are feeling very emotional right now and might be more prone to hurt feelings.

 

So sorry you and Boy are suffering so much. I am glad Flynne is being a good girl.

[nancy in AZ]

Originally posted by Miztiki:

[QB] Her posts made me cry, made me feel like I wasn't doing right by my dog, and that hurt quite a bit.

 

Miz, I think I can confidently say there isn't a soul on this forum who would question that you have done anything less than your utmost for all your fur family. You have gone to herculean efforts, despite personal adversity, to provide them with quality healthcare, husbandry and training. Your current situation is heartbreaking, and we understand if you are feeling overwrought. We all want to be there for you to help you see Boy through this crisis and a full recovery.

[nancy]

Yes, Miztiki, I think it's just that we all wish we were there with you - to hug you and to pat Boy and to ask all the vets and techs and all what the heck is going on. But the best we can do is scour our sources and try to give you any and all info in hopes that we can arm you to do what we wish we were there to help you do.

 

Good grief, everyone on the boards must know that you take better care of your pets than you do of yourself.

[bobh]

I Do not understand why you feel that anyone is attacking you ??

I must agree with Julie (sorry Julie ), And I do not think i know anything more than anyone. I would bring my dog back to the Vet school also. I think all the information that julie is giving Is sound , than you can make the decission on what you feel is best for boy.

As fore the tick pannel I was not aware that boy was neg For ehrlichia.. The signs and symptoms sound like he could have this problem . But i am sure many other thginks can cause this proplem

bobh

[ErinKate]

Hopefully everyone means well. I am sure emotions are running high. I think she is just trying to help. Maybe we just get comfortable with each other, and quit sugar coating things.

 

Miz, many prayers. You don't ever seem to have an easy walk, but I give you HUGE kudos for being such a great dog mom and noticing issues with you animals. (and yourself)

 

Keep us posted. Kiss Boy for us!

[Miztiki]

Boy is home! Says here on the paperwork:

 

"Chewed numerous IV lines and cath out during the day. All veins blown - unable to keep lines flowing even with E collar."

 

All four of his legs are now shaved/bruised/swollen from ripping his IV's out. They said he was NOT happy today and wanted to go home. He's got a Fentenyl patch on for pain. He's still holding his head/neck funny and his foot is still not right. His muscle spasms have stopped though and he is not crying out in pain or anything. He was pretty happy to be home and drank for about 10 minutes straight! Fynne gave him a good, long sniff and daddy is over there now tucking a pillow under his chin so that he's comfy.

 

Ddx is:

 

1) pain following CSF tap, localized hemorrhage w/infection

 

2) acute Toxoplasmosis w/myositis

 

3) Meningitis

 

The emergency vet is going to call me later.

 

His eyelid is drooping away from his eye and his eyes are rolling back. Poor guy must not have gotten much rest today. Hubby is on the cushion with him holding his head in his hand. I asked him what would happen if he removed his hand and he said his head would fall off, so hubby is gonna sit there with him for a while. Hate to see his head fall off!

[bc friend]

It sounds like you've got everything covered until Tuesday when you can get Boy into your new regular vet. Hope the ER vet can give you some more info. Hopefully all of you can get some rest now that Boy is home and apparently not in pain. You can be sure that you and Boy remain in the thoughts of many people on this Board and we're pulling for you both.

[Zoe]

Didn't post earlier but have been thinking of you all today. Sending all the positive vibes we can muster from this side of the world.

[Laura (Cady and Koda's mom)]

So glad to hear Boy is home where he belongs! I hope now both of you can get some much deserved rest. He must be more comfortable just being home. I hope once the regular vets open you can get some answers. Keep up the good work and give Boy some good snuggles from us.

[Lunar]

I'm so glad that he's home and that you have *some* answers. *HUGS* Hopefully now he can get some rest!

[Beth G]

Soooo glad he is home. Enjoy your boy and here is sending some more healing (((((vibes)))))

[Deneen]

I'm so glad that Boy is home with you and your family. You continue to be in my thoughts.

 

~Kelly

[Katelynn & Gang]

Yay for Boy!

 

I bet he feels so much better just being home! There is no where like home after all!

 

Lots of huges and good thoughts!

 

Katelynn & Gang

[stangs13]

I sure boy feels better!!! Miz, if you dont mind me asking what vet did he see?

[Kat's Dogs]

Better keep his head on!!

 

At least he is home now. Poor guy. I am SOOO glad everything is getting better rather then worse! Hang in there Boy!

[bc friend]

How's Boy doing?

[Miztiki]

It's called VCA Animal Emergency Hospital Southeast 713-941-8460 (they're the closest to us if you ever need them). The only other emergency one in Houston that I'm aware of is over by the Galleria somewhere.

 

Boy is doing so much better today! Last night he cried out a couple times but today he's really doing a whole lot better. I bought some flats of plants last week and they really needed to get into the ground, so we've been out doing that today. Boy just got better and better as the day went on and even started trotting around a bit by the end of the evening! At the rate he's going, he'll be enticing Fynne to chase him in another day or two!

 

I've been doing a ton of research and from what I've read, I'm hoping that if this is an acute case of Toxo, that this will pretty much be the end of it. From what I understand, the cysts can stay in the body forever but unless his immune system is severely compromised for some reason then it should become dormant and not trouble him any more.

 

So I'm really hoping this emotional rollercoaster ride is over! But he's doing really, really good tonight so I'm really happy about that!

 

Oh, and we finally got RAIN this morning too! My plants are gonna be so happy!

[Lunar]

Oh I really hope this ride is over too! Sounds like good progress. Yay!

[Dixie_Girl]

WOW! Miztiki I am so happy for you and Boy! Lord, I never even knew ticks good be so ornery! I just thought they were little blood suckers that were fun to squish! Now I am freaking every time I take a tick off Jackson!

 

Glad he is doing better! Still got prayers going for you and Boy!

[bc friend]

Glad to hear he's doing so much better. Please let us know what the vet says tomorrow - sounds like maybe you can get some rest tonight.