Guest PrairieFire Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Ok, SueLee, Bill F., Inci, and anyone else... Help out my thinking here... I just took a few "feeder lambs" to market (40 to be exact) and got currently top prices of $0.95 a pound for an average weight of 75#. This is $71.25 a lamb. "Slaughter lamb" prices are currently maxed at $0.76 a pound and the average weight of the guys going to market was 110#. This is $83.60 a lamb. This is a total of $12.35 MORE for a lamb that weighs 35# more - or $0.35 a pound... Do the feeders truly expect the market to go up THAT much higher? With corn in my area going for around $170 a ton, and grass hay being nearly unavailable, the price to get the little darlings to put on that extra 35# seems high - unless the hedge on the market is expecting extremely high lamb prices - anyone got any insider info? I'm trying to decide what to do with the rest of buggers... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com [This message has been edited by PrairieFire (edited 12-03-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Hey isn't insider information illegal?? (insert smirky smiley face). Well don't know much about feeder lambs/slaughter lambs..but I just figured out that I pay $140. a ton for corn..now seems to me since they grow corn alot closer to you then to me..and that you probably buy by the ton..I buy by the bag I should be paying more not you..Another one of those great unsolved mystery. Interesting to note I've had a man stop by who raises beef and hogs wanting to know if I had any lambs..seems there is a fairly big market here for Christmas and Easter lambs..He was trying to find some for his clients..The going rate is $100. Kind of happy I did buy that ram..Seems like I will not only have a fresh supply of sheep but maybe a little money to put towards the herding addiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suelee Robbe Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Bill, Marketing can be so localized. Your feeder lamb prices are competitive, but your fat lamb price is about ten dollars off the market. Fat lambs are around $82-89 with the majority at $87 this week in Sioux Falls. When we talked this last summer you also indicated you had a weak fat lamb market so this might be a common thing where you market. You are close enough to South St. Paul this surprises me. Below I have cut and pasted the market at South St. Paul. They are still showing a premium for heavy fats, but I don?t think you have the frame in your sheep to get them up to 145 efficiently. WS_LS315 So. St. Paul, MN Wed Nov 27, 2002 USDA Market News So. St. Paul Stockyards Sheep, Hog, and Calf Weekly Summary Sheep Receipts: 550 Last week: 1366 Year ago: 998 Compared to last week, all classes sold steady. Supply near 45 percent slaughter lambs, 15 percent slaughter ewes and 45 percent feeder lambs. Slaughter Lambs: Shorn: Choice, end Prime 2-3 125-145 lbs 80.00-82.00, few 145 lbs 84.00. Wooled: Choice, end Prime 2-3 110-125 lbs 73.00-78.00; 125-145 lbs 78.00- 80.00, few 130-140 lbs 82.00. Slaughter Ewes: Utility and Good 24.00-30.00. Cull 18.00-24.00. Feeder Lambs: Medium and Large 1-2: 60-80 lbs 80.00-90.00; 80-100 lbs 70.00-80.00. OK, back to your marketing decision. There is no way to predict the market, but supplies are currently tight and the price has been going up. You can figure on grass fed lambs that will be put in the feed lot to be finished will convert ~5.5 lbs of feed per 1 lb of gain. That is being fed a well balanced ration. With protein supplement calculated at $300./ton and corn at $2.10/bu your cost of gain should be around $0.29/lb. That is not considering any yardage or death loss. You death loss should be insignificant at this stage of feeding although there is always a risk. If you figure a standard $.04/hd/day yardage that will put your cost of gain at around $.32/lb. (gaining at .7 lb/day) To take it one step further, if you take these lambs to 125 lbs and if they started weighing 75 lbs at your price of $95.cwt your breakeven price would be (Go through the calculations with me) Lamb cost @ $71.25 and gain of 50 lbs @ $16.00, total invested = $87.25 divided by 125 lbs =$69.80/cwt. I personally would tell my husband to buy your feeder lambs and there would be a high probability that the price would be higher than $69.80 in the middle of February, which is when they would be predicted to go to town. I would also do my best to get a better fat lamb price that what you have been quoted. The web sites to look at the voluntary reporting of cash lamb prices is: http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/mncs/ls_main.htm Suelee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suelee Robbe Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 OK Bill, I just looked at your figures a little closer. If you are paying $170/ton for corn you are getting screwed big time. That is $4.75/bu. Market is at around $2.10. But to do the calculations I would figure a ration of .5 lb of protein supp and 3.5 lb of corn. You would need to balance your rations a little by feeding more supp at first and less later. It would take very little hay, we would feed about ? lb of hay per head per day and some feeders don?t feed any. By the way, those figures I went through above are a little on the high side for most of the feeders around here. We pay around $270/ton for protein supp and laid in corn for $1.90/bu. It is kinda fun to be feeding lambs nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brookcove Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Ow, my head hurts. I currently sell off the farm at around $1/pound live. You can get more for this if your clientelle is well established as with a friend who demands more (up to 1.75) for his top-quality lambs because he can't grow enough to meet the demand. We're also exploring local holistic foods markets and high-end restaurants, there's some interest there with today's demand for all things natural. Some of us small producers would need to form a co-op to supply these markets. ------------------ Rebecca Brook Cove Farm, NC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Bill, I don't have much to add to what SueLee has had to say on this subject. Those who finish lambs are essentially in the game of adding value to corn, and if they can't add value, the price of the lamb goes down. I would kill, by the way, for those lamb prices. Our market is running more like $65 to $70 CWT for good lambs. For my leaner grass-fed lambs, I'm lucky to be getting $50. Prices generally tick up a few notches as XMas approaches. At least that's what I'm hoping. ------------------ Bill Fosher Surry, NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Hey Guys - Bill F. - prices tick up a bit, but if you go to http://www.sheepusa.org/ scroll down to USDA Weekly Lamb Report and go to page three of the acrobat reader format that will come up, they have a pretty nifty "averages" chart for the past couple of years - that shows the uptick right around now through christmas and then the big drop...that's why I guess I don't understand the feeding thing...unless one feeds to get SueLee's 145# lambs NOW, one hits a market slump unless they hang onto the lambs until April... Ok, even if I could get the cost of gain at $0.29 - current prices - by the way, mine were at the South St. Paul yards - I think your info is old, SueLee - my lambs kicked the price to $0.95 (no brag, just fact - well, maybe a little brag)...it stll, again at current prices, ends up being a gain of $0.06 a pound - one heck of a lot of work it seems to me... Our grain and hay prices are terribly high currently, we had the third wettest summer on record, and a fall so wet some of the corn is still standing - and what is down is so wet, the dryers aren't doing the job...I can't even GET good hay right now, I'm having to feed crap - good thing the "frame" of my NCC's fills out on crap - the others are looking pretty gaunt on the feed they have available... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com [This message has been edited by PrairieFire (edited 12-03-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Sorry if my last post was off the mark, and SueLee, I didn't mean to sound crabby, I shouldn't even have tried to post - it was an awful day at work today, the husband of our CEO had a heart attack and died after we had been administering CPR in my office...I'm not thinking straight. My prayers go out to him (Jim Shuman), his wife (Ruth) and 7 year old daughter (Eva). Please keep him and especially Ruth and Eva in your thoughts...prayers are nice. ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted December 3, 2002 Report Share Posted December 3, 2002 Okay Bill, since I live in roughly the same area as you and just picked up a ton of corn a week ago and I certainly did NOT pay $170. I paid $2.14 per bushel or $77.19 per ton. I just can't believe that you paid that much for corn in bulk. I also have had plenty of grass hay from my own pasture to feed my few sheep. But you might consider the hay auction that is held in Cannon Falls every month by the Cannonball. ------------------ Kathy Flynn, CVT Sogn Valley Farm and Border Collies Cannon Falls, MN 507-263-4767 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabreur Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Bill, You certainly have had your share of fires, death and plague (verbal) recently--I hope you continue to do ok.... The second thing I have to say is that this discussion of prices has put a damper on my fantasies about eventually owning a small sheep farm, and doing part-time consulting on the side--seems like it is very hard to make the numbers add up. Regards, MR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Well, Kathy, I guess that's good for you...when buying from the local feed store, you pay local prices - and I'd bet that most "farmers" don't take into consideration ALL the price of getting feed - do you pay tax in Minnesota? We do, that adds 7 1/2%. Then there's bulk rolling or cracking, which if you don't do, it isn't as digestable, then delivery or bagging - or the use of your vehicle...anyway, A good friend just had a ton and a half delivered to my granary (as payback for livestock use in dog training) and that's what she needed to put on her credit card...whether you believe it or not...actually she put $255 for a ton and half. Of course things like rolling and delivery drastically decrease in cost per pound the more you have deliverd - I won't let anyone buy just that amount anymore - I'll kick in the money for a larger delivery... Last time I checked the hay auction in Cannon Falls, the price was around $60 - $70 a ton - not delivered - that's about $40 per round bale (the large 1500# ones I buy)... What most folks who have a few sheep don't understand, and I'm sure it is one of the differences between SueLee's estimates of making a few bucks per lamb (maybe a few thousand) and mine of making a few bucks per lamb (maybe 150)..is that 200 sheep don't require a round bale or two...200 sheep X 5 pounds a day (at the levels of protien currently) X 160 day feeding cycle is 160,000 pounds or roughly 110 very large bales or many more of the smaller round bales more often seen... Or about $4800 worth of hay at auction prices. Plus delivery, and even with a semi or flatbed, that's a lot of trips... Then the gas of using the tractor - cover for the hay, either buildings or tarps - feeders - time, etc. It's all a cost of doing business, and this year I've made more money on sheep than any other year - but those are all considerations that need to be made. Considerations that one needs to make if one is actually trying to make some money off thier stock rather than just keeping a few pets...and isn't looking at the total cost of doing business. In some cases, on exisiting farms, with equipment and perhaps the lack of a mortgage, due to inheritance or whatever, your per AU input can be drastically lowered, but for me, I want to know actual and true costs - of every dose of wormer, every vaccination, every piece of fence or gate, every vet cert, and also every single bit of tax I pay, gas I use to handle it, tools to repair or install it, etc. And being slightly compulsive about numbers, I want to know TRUE cost per pound - not just the really obvious stuff. I even include upkeep on building including painting, repairs, insurance, etc. Mark - I appreciate the thoughts, but I was, essentially, a bystander, I did some CPR and the man was a friend...but as usual, his family is the one that needs the thoughts - the folks left behind are the ones who need to see beyond the grieving... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Bill, Sorry to hear about your boss. Sounds horrible. My condolences to you, his family, and the staff. ------------ Sabeur, In my recent trip to Scotland, I was struck by what a mature sheep industry looks like. Here in the US, we tend to try to adopt a business model that ignores the reality of our terrain, access to markets, and costs of doing business. Over there, the sheep are tailored to the situation. Scottish Blackface ewes, for instance, are run on rough ground -- mostly heather and bracken -- at stocking rates as light as one sheep per three or four acres. They are expected to fend for themselves, more or less, as one shepherd might be looking after 1,000 ewes or more. A 100 percent lamb crop would be remarkably high. But the lambs that those ewes produce are not expected to grow on the same ground where their mothers pick out a meager existance. Once they are weaned, they are raised on improved pasture, or on brassica crops that are planted specifically as late fall/early winter lamb grower feed. Farms that have less hill ground and more improved pasture tend to have more prolific ewes, but the model remains the same: with the excpetion of the weeks leading up to and following lambing, ewes are on maintenance diets, and the lambs get the best feed the farm has to offer. I saw a little grain being fed, but not much. The Scottish growing season is a bit too short and cool for corn, but there are lots of oats, barley, and wheat grown. It's simply too valuable to feed to sheep. In many ways, this same approach to sheep farming could be adapted to New England. Grain is too expensive here to be a realistic source of energy for fattening lambs. (I pay $242 per ton for a 16 percent pellet in bags, and whole corn is actually a little more expensive. Bulk is a little less expensive, but not enough to matter.) But what most of us do (and I'm as guilty of this as anyone else) is to look for high-dollar markets for our lambs and lamb meat, rather than trying to cut costs of production. I'm not saying there isn't merit to seeking high-dollar markets, but I think they're a lot harder to crack than most people realize. Just because I can sell 10 lambs a year at $3.75 per pound hanging weight doesn't mean that I could sell 1,000 for that price, or that I would be able to put the time and effort into developing and serving that market and still maintain the sort of lamb crop quality that would be needed to do so. And when dealing with a value-added product, such as direct retailing of lamb meat, it's important to count all the costs. Even if you're selling live lambs off the farm, there's a cost of being present for the sale -- you must wait for the customer to arrive, engage in the usual banter and negotiation, weigh the individual lamb, and then make the sale. That costs more than putting 50 lambs on the gooseneck and waiting for the check to come back from the stockyard. If you're running a farm of any size, there will always be a need to deal with the commodity market for lambs, and the key to profitability, it seems to me, is to ensure that you can make money even when the price is low. It's a lofty goal. Maybe someday I'll get started on it. ------------------ Bill Fosher Surry, NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Bill F. makes good points... One of the reasons I don't deal with the "niche" market for lambs is my inability to dicker or barter with enthusiasm - I just don't want to spend an hour or two "entertaining" certain folks in order to sell a lamb or two a year - that cuts into my time drastically as a flashlight farmer and part-time dog trainer... Beef is a bit different for me - I can niche market much quicker - but the time I need to spend going to a different butcher, packaging, weighing the cuts, etc. is also a cost that MUST be added to doing business - unless one sees it all as a hobby...then certain things can be discarded as "cost of fun", I guess...like I do with the dogs... And while I can market a half dozen or so beef cows in a niche - I would have to get several thousands of dollars a pound in order to support my "farm" on those few, something that isn't quite practical. Niche marketing is something that can add some spending money to your bottom line, but USUALLY isn't enough to "payoff the farm". Also, needing to work off the farm in order to pay the mortgage means that I have fewer hours to input into my livestock - so I need to qualify, judge, and make decisions about where to best spend that time...and that requires knowing full costs of feeding including costs of feeding equipment amortized, taxes, hours to feed vs. "opportunity" cost, etc. Just stuff that that needs to be taken into consideration. For example, even with a tractor with only half a transmission, there is simply no way I can justify repairing it - I'm not a dirt farmer and all I do is haul haybales - something I can do at slow speed, it just takes awhile... Just decisions each of us makes, and SueLee did a good job of explaining how she makes hers - even though they wouldn't fit for me or my operation...or my personality...or my beliefs...they work for her and her family...just as I'm sure Kathy's does for her... I'm rambling, sorry, but I could also get off on the tack of comparing "organic" agriculture to truly "sustainable" agriculture - and my belief that most of what we call in this country "organic" ISN'T sustainable... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Oh, and Kathy, that corn you bought must have been pretty wet - dry, shelled corn has a specific gravity of .72 - or 45 pounds per cubic foot... There are 1.245 cu feet in a bushel...or 36# per bushel - that's low moisture corn, by the way...55.55 bushels per ton... At $2.14 per bushel (the price you paid) - that's $118.87 per ton - of dry, shelled corn - plus rolling, delivery, taxes, etc... At $77.19 per ton, a bushel of corn (at $2.14 a bushel) would need to weigh 55.55 pounds, indicating a fairly high moisture content - about 1/3 pound of water (specific gravity of 1 or 62.4# per cubic foot) to 1 pound of corn, or about 33%, which under my storage conditions would mold, or could perhaps generate heat and burn (something I've had enough of for awhile)...and I don't like feeding high moisture corn, I think it's terribly tough on rumens... High moisture corn, by the way, is also cheaper per bushel to purchase - it hasn't had the "value added" condition of being dried... Many "feed suppliers" may use different conversions - a problem I had when designing and building grain drying and handling equipment - but the above numbers are "real", not what the boys at the feed store tell you... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com [This message has been edited by PrairieFire (edited 12-04-2002).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Agreed Bill F. makes some good points..In my case I need a niche market..there are no livestock markets here that will buy sheep. Where as I can easily unload maybe 10 lambs a year..I wouldn't have a market for 50. But then I'm not trying to make a living from them..just trying to keep a fresh supply for the dog training. What is really blowing me away is what you all pay for feed. Like I said my corn comes bagged from the feed store..Comes to $140 per ton..Grass hay is $5.50 per bale or $35. per #1500 roll..delivered..T&A runs $7.50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Hi Amy - Grass hay in our area is generally around that price as well - actually, I can usually get it for $25 or so for a 1500 pound bale - the hay auctions are expensive compared to contracting it. The difficulty I had this year is the wet weather interfered with harvesting for a lot of the guys I generally contract with - so what I got, naturally, isn't the best...been rained on, etc. I can still buy my hay for around $27 - but the "larger framed" sheep aren't doing well on it already - and they've only been on it for a few weeks...the NCC's are doing well, they can eat sawdust and grow - although as SueLee points out, they won't grow as big as some of my crosses will on "proper" feed...it's just that this year, there isn't a lot of "proper" feed available without paying the larger prices... Some of this, also, I'm sure, has to do with the "five acres and a horse" folks building out here - I can get $5.50 a bale "horse hay" - "35# bales" (that really only weigh 25-30#), but do the math on that price... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuck's BCBuddy Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Bill, Sorry I don't have anything useful to contribute, but ya got me chuckling (your engineer side is showing). Where, oh where, did you get the specific gravity of dry shelled corn? Not disputing the numbers, I just couldn't find it in Marks' Standard Handbook, lol. Carl Hochberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Martin Conveying Systems... Many engineers just know their gearing and transmission side, but they are still one of the largest grain elevator manufacturers in the world....you can hit thier website and find a materials reference page... I also did a stint as Engineering Manager for the Rapat Corporation which bought the old Gerber Elevator Company and learned the hard way that the "numbers" thrown around by the "good old boys" weren't even close to being right...it sounds good to say 36 bushels makes a ton, but only if you pee (a lot) on the corn... Where we ran into problems was generally that the boys would say, "I'm trying to run two tons a minute through the system, and you said it could handle 70 bushels"...still, the bigger discussions were about why they had to buy an extra 50 horsepower if they wanted to run at -15 F...belts, motors, tribology... 'Course, I still get in discussions with wet-behind-the-ears Engineers that pressure has nothing to do with cylinder speed... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Charles Torre Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Engineers. Sigh. Maybe engineering is what is needed to help you feed the livestock. But when you are moving the livestock (with dogs), it's all physics. (Insert derogatory smilely widget here.) charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Suelee Robbe Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Bill, Don?t get all offended on me about your sheep. I personally like little sheep, I think that they are hardier, typically more productive, etc? I just stated that I don?t think your sheep have the frame to yield grade 2?s and 3?s at 145lbs. That is not being insulting by any means. People in the US like to eat large portions and little 2 inch ribeyes don?t impress the typical US consumer. So we get a premium for big framed, often overly fat sheep. I think it is sad, but we as a feedlot will do what the market dictates. When I want a lamb for our freezer, I pick out a lamb that would still have another 30-60 days in the feedlot. You are certainly in a different situation, if you can?t buy in semi-load lots of feedstuffs it may be difficult to compete. It probably would be better in your situation to just be really good at producing feeder lambs. Honestly, in the Midwest, feedlots talk about ?native lambs? like they talk about the plague. They are horrible to feed. They have chronic pneumonia from being born in closed up barns in Jan/Feb, they routinely prolapse, they have foot rot, etc.. If you produce a good uniformed lot of lambs that have a little tail, low incidence of neonatal pneumonia, and aren?t heavily parasitized you should get a premium even if you don?t have the frame in your lambs like the Suffolk crosses you are competing with in the Midwest. As a matter of fact if you were closer, right now I would offer you $100/cwt with a 2% pencil shrink and come pick them up. As far as profit goes? In the typical lamb feedlot, a feeder purchasing your lambs will have around a cost of gain at $.26/lb. If we were conservative and sold those lambs for $.76/lb (purchased at $.95), and filled our lots 3 times/year figuring a 3 mo turn over, (and calculate in a 2% death loss) we would make $7.82/per lamb, or a total of 23.45/year. Now we have a total of $257.80 invested. This gives us a return on investment of 9.1%. I personally think the market will be better than $75.00. I hate to say this, but this is what agriculture has been forced into. It is factory farming and the one thing I can console myself in is that it still ain?t as bad as pig farming and my husband is still able to walk out the door and be at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 4, 2002 Report Share Posted December 4, 2002 Good points, SueLee, and I am not offended at all, but like Bill F., and you I believe, that American Agriculture has been forced down a path that many of us aren't comfortable with... Me, as I've certainly mentioned here, I produce livestock that doesn't quite fit the mold - neither the Highlanders or the NCC Foundation flock - but the NCC X Dorset lambs, and I'm thinking next year, the Highlander X Red Angus might fit a peculiar "commodity niche" for me... What I do know is that since I have to be very careful not to squander the "time" I have to give to my farm, that a horribly important "profit factor" is that of return on hours as well as return on dollars... I beleive that "flashlight farmers" like myself either end up as nearly "pure" hobbyists - who invest a lot of "off farm" money in thier "hobby" - or they niche market and make hardly any return, perhaps paying JUST for the hobby - or they nearly kill themselves trying to farm like the "real" farmers, and end up not getting the results anyway, because the simply cannot be big enough - and I would like to think I can find a different path... Grass-fed, sustainable agriculture on a scale that returns enough to pay the mortgage and doesn't require me to kill myself working 3 jobs - off farm, the farm and the farm... Like Billl F., I ain't there yet, but this year was close... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 Suelee, Interesting how different the markets are. If I were to send a 145 pound lamb (which would be immensely overfinished with my breeds) to the local markets, I would get cull sheep price for it. The best points to sell lambs seem to be 40 pounds and 80 pounds, provided that they have at least decent cover. The little lambs, actually, have to be pretty rolly-polly to bring good money, but they will bring close to $200 CWT at the right time of year. For my freezer trade, a live lamb of 90 to 110 pounds is about right. Again, if I provided a carcass that weighed 70 to 80 pounds, most of the cuts would be larger than a "normal" family would want. What would that produce, a 12 pound leg? Most of my customers ask me to halve my legs, and they would be 6 to 8 pounds left whole. Most of them would like slightly larger loin eyes, but when I talk to them about what would come along with those larger loin eyes, most of them are happy to enjoy two chops per meal rather than one big one. ------------------ Bill Fosher Surry, NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 5, 2002 Report Share Posted December 5, 2002 That's generally the size I shoot for as well, Bill... Seems to me that my expereince in eating lamb suggests that anything larger seems to be a bit "muttony"...and I am still amazed that wool breeds aren't segregated from meat breeds - my NCC's taste nothing like the "grease" in the Rambo's and other wool breeds... SueLee, do you know if your packers are going for the restaurant market instead of the consumer? And what breed do you use to get to that carcass size and how long does it take you? And what about sizes imported? Awhile back, I had heard that 110#-125# was the ozzie and kiwi shipped live weight? Anybody know? And how about the checkoff? I keep paying for it, but haven't seen ANY marketing like the pork and beef people do... ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikw Posted December 10, 2002 Report Share Posted December 10, 2002 Bill, On that feeder lots question,I meant to write earlier but couldn't squeeze the time and didn't have the contract signed and sealed with the middleman (N.Y.restaurant broker) and couldn't give you an idea of the prices. Here it goes. Lambs for Easter and delivery must be completed by April 6th. Minimum acceptable amount of lambs :1,500 Prices are premium live weight. 25 to 45 lbs = $2.18 46 to 70 lbs = $1.79 71 to 85 lbs = $1.69 86 lbs over = $0.89 Anything over 100 lbs will be rejected at the docks. I can't give you any ideas how this cross will finish (dorset/dorper ewes X dorper rams) but if I had the Texel rams as terminal sires on these ewes,I would know exactly how they'll finish. Also,contract is for premium lambs and Texels as terminal sires produces that,not sure of Dorpers propensity as sires. Also,I do not have the expense (feed,help,transportation and misc.) report,since it handled by the owners. ------------------ Inci Willard Clearville,PA 814-784-3414 ikw@pennswoods.net ------------------- It's better to be silent and thought the fool,than to speak and remove all doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PrairieFire Posted December 10, 2002 Report Share Posted December 10, 2002 Wow, really interesting about the "penalty" for heavier lambs... I usually finish, like Bill F., around that 90-100# mark when I go to the trouble of finishing... I was thinking that SueLee's contractor was looking at the restaraunt market and that's why he wanted the larger lambs - but at least that doesn't appear to be true in your market...at least for that particular broker - I don't suppose you know if he caters to upscale, ethnic, or whatever, do you? I guess if I could figure out the livestock market, I'd just go into the commodoties side, wear a suit, and make lots of money... Nah. ------------------ Bill Gary Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center River Falls, WI 715.426.9877 www.kensmuir.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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