Jackie and Spencer Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I read the article on the website about the merle gene or 'blue pups'. We did not know that our male carried the gene until one of the pups was born with all of the border collie markings of the white and black except that he was gray. It turns out that the great grandfather to our male had a gray chest. Has anyone else ever seen a completley gray and white border collie? I am concerned about the health problems that the article stated comes with this type of dog. I am also assuming that it would be unhealthy to continue to use our male for breeding since he has this gene. Any comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Hi, I think you are confusing two different colors. Merle is a pattern that is applied over a base color, black (blue merle) or red (red merle), which dilutes/roans some parts of the coat and leaves patches of normal color in other parts. Blue and white is caused by a dilution gene, and dilutes out the basic color. In the case of your dog, the black is diluted to grey, but it is an overall grey (that is, the dog doesn't have patches of black mixed in with "roaned" areas). The only thing I have heard that blue/white dogs can specifically have as a result of their color is a form of alopecia. I'll see if I can find the link to an earlier thread discussing it. [edited to add]: Okay I couldn't find the thread here, but I did get some links off the 'Net for you: http://www.italiangreyhound.org/health/cda.html http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract http://bmc.ub.uni-potsdam.de/1471-2156-6-34/ http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cl...2&articleid=413 As for whether to continue to use your male: If he has proven himself as a top-notch working dog and the loss of his genetics would be a true loss to the working dog world, then if he were mine I would consider still using him. If you are breeding for pet or sport homes and the dog is not a proven working dog, then no, I wouldn't take the chance of creating pups that could have (but might not have) problems related to the presence of the dilution gene. At any rate, the presence of dilution in and of itself does not automatically mean that the dog possessing it will end up with CDA, so no need to make a knee-jerk decision based on the presence of one blue pup. On another list, there was a recent discussion of immune-mediated hemolytic anemia, which is generally deadly. Apparently dilution can be one factor that predisposes dogs to susceptibility to IMHA, but again, as a single factor will not actually cause the dog to have IMHA. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrider Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I remember that in rough collies, a type of solid grey, not merle, was a genetic mutation that caused blood problems, and the dogs had problems were euthanized. I don`t remember the name, but will check it out. The merle gene will sometimes be expressed in only a small portion of the body, with the regular colour not diluted in most of the coat. No problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mona Howard Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Trailrider, the term is "lethal silver". Dogs born with this trait rarely make it to maturity. I read once that they were trying to breed this mutation under labratory conditions. It paralled luekemia in humans. Seems that a pup can be born into a normal litter and the color is unmistakeable. This shows up mostly in Rough Collies...(Lassie). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I know a blue BC with IMHA who was extremely sick as a pup. Sadly, it looks like the owner will be breeding the dog :mad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/ColorGen.html This site has some good information. It's hard to tell what color exactly you are reffering to. Do you have a picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Liz, I think as more and more of the "designer" colors get out in the world, we will see more health issues connected to the genetics of those colors, sadly. And as long as there are gullible people who want those special colors and will pay a premium, there will be unscrupulous breeders producing them. (I'll never forget the poor people who showed up years ago at the vet practice where I worked with their "rare blue doberman" for which they had paid a lot of money due to the uniqueness of the color, with no clue that the dog's skin problems, and likely other problems, were directly related to that special color. What was it PT Barnum said?) My opinion of course. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Originally posted by Jackie and Spencer:til one of the pups was born with all of the border collie markings of the white and black except that he was gray. Journey,This description pretty clearly describes a blue and white dog and not a merle. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted June 29, 2006 Report Share Posted June 29, 2006 Right Julie. I should have deleted the "G" at the end of the link. My question is - is it Blue (black dilute), Grey, Silver, or even Wolf Gray? The site still has some good info. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.