Crystals in Urine

[2 Devils]

Tempe is now almost 18 weeks old. A few weeks back we noticed a discharge but the vets were not that concerned because it was minimal. Our vets actually don't want to oversubscribed medicines. Anyways, a couple weeks go by and now Tempe is having to pee constantly it seems and started having accidents in her crate. Well she was not even 3 months old so accidents happen. We started putting pads in the crate to make it easier to clean up. Then we noticed some blood. She was going to the vets for shots anyways and I told the vet about the blood. Tempe would not grace us with a urine sample but the vets took my word and gave her antibiotics and everything improved, no more accidents.

 

Well we went to the vets on Friday for her last round of shots and rabies. I noticed some discharge again and the original vet asked that we still try for a sample to make sure all was ok. Again Tempe would not grace us with a sample. The vet again was not too concerned about the discharge since it was so minimal but mentioned that if I wanted they could do an ultrasound and cath her. So after a couple minutes of thinking, I said I want her cath's.

 

They ran a full urinalysis on her and the results were crystals in the urine and the vet wanted to know what I feed. I feed Innova Evo mixed with Wellness Fish and Sweet Potato because I was concerned about the high protein in Evo. I read him the ingredients and he was stumped. He says her PH was high. The acid was low (I gather). He says since Evo is heavily meat based then the results should be opposite. He asked that I just feed the Evo for a month and then will retest the urine. The Wellness is more veggies and he said if I just fed that he would suggest switching foods. I guess her crystals are the type you see with high veggie intake.

 

I did not even think to ask what kind of crystals but I am sure someone has the answer.

 

Anyways, other than food, what can cause crystals in the urine? Tempe and the other dogs have been bad and eating a bunch of dirt and leaves but I am not sure if that would be part of the problem or not and did not even think about that at the time I spoke with the vet.

 

Anyone have some ideas? She is awfully young to have these problems... UGH!!! Why can't have just one dog without some kind of medical thing.

[nancy]

Use a food that is low in ash. And give vitamin C. For our cats, who had that to the point of emergency hospitalization, it was a 50mg tablet crushed and added to the food daily. You might consider doing that morning and evening for a dog. Yes, the vet can sell you expensive little red pills. But they are vitamin C anyhow.

[Sue R]

I did not even think to ask what kind of crystals but I am sure someone has the answer.

There are different types of crystals that can be found in urine. I am sure the treatment (including diet) will vary with the type of crystal. Your vet should be recommending diet changes/medication based on the type of crystal.

[Rave]

Kim,

When Sierra had high pH, I started giving her Vitamin C (there's a certain kind that works better, but I forget which, maybe someone here knows) and it took care of it.

[juliepoudrier]

Laura,

You're probably tinking of ester-C. I think that's what Regina recommended when I had a cat with struvite crystals. There is some disagreement as to whether it's any more effective than plain old vitamin C, but it is supposed to be less acidic and therefore less upsetting to the stomach (the acorbate vs. ascorbic acid thing).

 

Kim,

You do need to find out what kind of crystals are present, as crystals can also form in urine that is too acidic. And Sue is right, the type of crystal present has a bearing on the treatment and diet changes you'll want to use.

 

Also it's not entirely unusual for young female pups to get UTIs. Twist went through that when she was a pup. So don't despair over Tempe's health just yet.

 

J.

[Carson Crazies]

Kim, my Pap had UTI problems that seemed to have been either aggravated or caused by the Wellness. I have other acquaintances that say their dogs that are prone to UTI's and have fed Wellness have had the same experience. That's kind of anectdotal and I have no scientific evidence to back it up, but I've run into enough people who've had the same issues, and seen it in my own dog. My other 3 did fine on it though.

[2 Devils]

OK - so I finally spoke to vet and asked what kind of crystals.

 

What has him stumped is the fact that she has both Struvite and Calcium Oxalate. Plus her PH is 8.5 when it should be 7 or so... She also had some white cells in her urine which should not have been present with a cath's urine.

 

I am thinking that food may have something to do with it but who knows.

 

Any ideas/helpful hints???

[Sue R]

Here's a quote from AK Dog Doc, concerning a crystal problem in a cat or dog from a couple of years ago:

 

On the vitamin C to treat the problem... part of the point is to acidify the urine, which discourages certain types of crystals from forming (just to make this more confusing, some crystals *only* form in an acid pH) - but the usual culprit in the obstructed tom is struvite, which does NOT form in acid pH, so any urine acidifier is of value there so long as it doesn't contain or cause urinary excretion of lots of calcuim, magnesium, and phosphate (the componants of the crystals.)

Not being a vet (or anything approaching one), I would first wonder about a UTI since white cells were found in urine gathered with a catheter. In addition, struvite crystals (as AKDD says do not form in acid pH) and calcium oxalate crystals sound like they both may be a product of too-high pH as well, and perhaps too high calcium in the diet.

 

Although it sounds to me like your dog might need antibiotics because of the white blood cells in the urine, it seems like reducing the pH of the urine (and maybe also dietary calcium) might be helpful. Maybe vitamin C as suggested above...

 

So, what is your vet doing to tackle this problem, or is he simply suggesting a diet change? If so, what about the white blood cells in the urine?

[nancy]

When our cats had that, we were told to avoid ash in their food. Luckily, Friskies offered both canned food and kibble that was listed as low in ash. Ashes are what we add to our garden to raise the PH; they are alkaline, so it made sense to me.

 

We also crushed a 50 mg vitamin C and spit it on their food every morning.

 

Hey, try feeding Clementines?

[woof99]

OK, so here's as simple an answer as I can make it. I am a vet tech and I work in the animal nutrition field and have dealt with many of these cases over the years. Puppies and kittens will sometimes get crystals in their urine, most common causes: infection, improper diet, not enough water consumption,(so the dog doesn't drink enough, the crystals don't get flushed out because he doesn't pee enough), (also more exercise makes the dog drink more so the crystals get flushed out), holding the urine for too long...

Now, there are 2 main crystals we find:

1-struvites...usually found in dogs because of infection, the infection changes the ph (makes it more alkaline) this leads to crystal formation. (more common in females because of urinary tract infection). We speak of using acidifiers in cats mainly, we CANNOT use urine acidifiers in puppies or kittens because this would stop the calcification of the growth plates...major orthopedic problems later on.

Treatment: antibiotics and a good quality CANNED food for at least 4 weeks. I would honestly go with a formula your vet sells. Because they have been formulated to obtain an optimal urine ph to prevent urinary problems. After 4 weeks, go back to the Evo, I see frequent dogs with urinary problems on Wellness, the ingredients are great...the results aren't so great in vet clinics. Also, please go in for a recheck to your vet, if there is still sign of infection, you might need stronger antibiotics and if you don't go back, you could end up with antibiotic resistant bacteria!

2: Calcium Oxalates: These tend to occur more frequently in certain breeds.. small breeds.

These are caused by diet and/or metabolic problems. These will eventually form stones that need to be surgically removed. Struvites on the other hand can be dissolved so surgery is not needed. You need x-rays to see if your dog has Ca Oxalates.

The vets do sell diets that prevent these Oxalates, but they are not appropriate for growing puppies. These will form without infection...but can lead to infection.

Phew...

Also, the urine sample needs to be examined within 30 minutes of it being collected, because urine sitting on a counter will form crystals and change ph, so it doesn't give the real disgnosis. Collect the first urine of the morning and rush it to the vet and make sure they read it right away. I think this is most likely why you had both crystals in the urine. It is possible but highly unlikely.

I think that what I said to do about struvites is your best bet and puppies will frequently outgrow this, so don't worry!

I'd also like to mention that ash is not something we look at anymore, it has been proven that this was what poor diets contained and it ended up being blamed, not true. In fact, Friskies is one of the BIGGEST cause for blocked cats, I would avoid this diet at all costs! Just spend a bit more and buy the food that your vet sells or if you want to spend a bit more, you can get any of the better quality ones at the pet supply stores. Please avoid feeding anything sold in grocery stores or Walmarts...just read the ingredients, cats are carnivores and poultry meal should be the #1 or #2 ingredient. Dogs too need a good source of protein, the great thing about quality diets is the pets eat less, poo less and you have pets that live longer with fewer health problems, trust me I see it all the time.

Well, those are my 2 cents worth!

Good luck and let us know how Tempe is!!

[JBP]

Sounds like a pretty classic case of a urinary tract infection, leading to a high pH of urine, leading to coalescing of minerals to crystal formation. Since this is second UTI, a culture of urine acquired via cystocentesis is recommended and radiographs to make sure pup doesn't already have a bladder stone(s).

 

My youngest case of urolithiasis (secondary to a UTI) was in a 6 week old lab puppy.

 

Please ask your vet to be aggressive with the diagnostics, and you should get this cleared ASAP.

 

HTH

Jennifer

[JBP]

oh, and anyone who wants to give up Clementines, give them to me instead

[Allie Oop]

My BC would protest if we gave them up, she LOVES them!

[2 Devils]

My holistic vet is going to order us some Uro Eze, I think it is called. Plus she said to go out and buy the human cranberry pills and give those to her.

 

Tempe was treated for 3 weeks for the UTI before the cath'd urine test. The vets do not think there is an infection per se just that her PH is out of whack and causing the problems. They just aren't sure why it is out of whack.

 

I am hoping that the Wellness food is the problem and all will be cleared up in a couple weeks.

 

I will keep you posted.

 

Thank you all for your advice.

[nancy]

Oh, the other thing that helped our cats' problems was moving from Saugerties, NY, to Charlotte, NC. Honest. We were able to stop the vitamin C, except on very rare occasions when one or another cat peed in the bathtub and we could see there was blood in the urine (the only time either ever peed there).

 

And our vet said he's heard the same from lots of us IBM families who transferred down from Kingston IBM and Endicott IBM. He said that all water has different chemicals, naturally. And it seemed that the chemical composition of New York State was much more alkaline than that of Piedmont North Carolina.