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I think now that Ollie may indeed have an injury rather than bad hips. His knee seems tender and rest helps a lot - whereas I know from experience that crate rest tends to make hip problems worse. I let him out of the crate for a few minutes and got distracted, and he pushed himself too hard playing with Ann, apparently (with whom he has thoroughly fallen in looooovve :rolleyes: ). I found him just a few minutes later very lame, and discovered a bit of inflammation just below the knee. Ouchie.

 

Thinking about it, an injury makes more sense anyway. When I drove up, I saw the tire marks of Ollie's family's truck where it had pulled off really fast - it dug quite a trench coming around the corner - and saw where Ollie was running so hard in the dirt next to the driveway that his paw prints were about two inches deep at the corner where the driveway met the road. He couldn't have made that kind of speed with hips so bad he's pretty much crippled right now. I don't think, anyway. :D

 

I know ACL injuries are fairly common in these young active dogs. Can anybody share their experience with this - treatment required, how it was discovered, recovery times?

 

Thanks!

 

ElweHeadLeftApril05.jpg

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Well Becca I am glad to hear it is not likely hips. His story had me crying too. My Charlie had an ACL tear when he was 6 or so, he ended up having surgery and crate rest after. The vet claimed without the surgery he would develop early onset arthritis. I would have an orthopedic vet look at most injuries like this if I had the opportunity. I did not at that time, and they did an adequate job, but his agility career was pretty much over. I read now that many dogs with surgical ACL repair recover and go on to compete fine. Charlie is 13 1/2 now and the only thing I see is maybe the knee is tender at times, might have lead to hips being sore earlier in his life as he favors that ACL knee anyway, even with the surgery he had. It was quite awhile ago, and I know human surgeries have improved. Dog surgeries have too. I tore my ACL last June, almost a year ago, and haven't had surgery. I told you guys a sheep hit me! I hope Ollie finds a great loving home. Ice helps but hard to keep on a dog. Anti inflammatories help too, it might not be a tear but a strain of the ACL.

Caroline

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My husband's older 6 year old mixed breed (that he inherited from his mom) was on scheduled for hip surgery when his vet decided to do one more Xray. It wasn't her hips so he sent us to MI State U for ACL surgery. A year later her other ACL ruptured. For the rest of her life, Sandy was fragile and we had to be careful with her. Our BC tore her ACL doing agility and our vet suggested crate rest. We went to an orthopedic specialist for a 2nd opinion and thay did TPLO surgery: expensive but worth it for an active dog. Brandy was competing in agility again in less that 7 or 8 months. Our vet diagnosed her torn ACL by feeling for drawer (sp?) and it was confirmed by the specialist. He also did Xrays...

Barb S

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Becca,

The dogs I've had with ACL problems were all diagnosed with the "drawer" sign. It may require sedation, but vets are pretty good at diagnosing ACL problems this way. I've never had a vet offer to X-ray a knee for suspected ACL tears because generally soft tissue injuries won't show up on X-ray (of course there are exceptions). In Jill's case, the knee was obviously unstable when manipulated and you could hear a grinding sound.

 

If he's not completely lame, I would suspect a partial tear, but no way to know for certain. I brought Jill back from a partial tear (after that injury to her hip, probably the knee was damaged at the same time and no one noticed because of the hip) with conservative treatment--that is, no surgery and just physical therapy.

 

Recovery times will vary I'd guess, depending on the severity of the injury and the treatment option chosen. That said, I think Ferrell's recovery from TPLO surgery took just about as long as Jill's recovery without surgery. The difference is that Ferrell can't re-injure the cruciate in that one knee now and Jill still could (because his was surgically repaired and hers was not). Both dogs went through a similar regimen of PT, but that could be because we both took them to Regina for that PT.

 

You might be wise to put him on glucosamine supplements, with or without MSM. Don't let him play with Ann or anyone else--if it's a partial tear he could easily blow it in a hearbeat. (I trialed Jill twice on hers because we thought her intermittent lameness was due to soreness in her hip--Regina was amazed she didn't blow the ACL completely out in one of those trials.)

 

J.

P.S. He looks whole lotta Aussie to me!

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I am now in the process of scheduling an appointment with a Specialist at Va. Tech. Vet Hospital for Sitka, my Akita mix, for surgery. She is a really big girl (90lbs), and does favor her injured leg. Our family Vet also did the exam where he noticed "play" in her knee, that shouldn't be there.

I have talked to people whose dogs have had the surgery, one Sitka's age (7 yrs), and she said the recovery was lengthy, but well worth it. We are now rearranging our house so we won't have to do steps, while she is healing. I guess I will be sleeping in the rec room downstairs for a month or 2, til she gets cleared for steps. I will keep ya'll informed on how the surgery and recovery goes. I am a nervous wreck, don't want to do this, but I know in the long run Sitka will be better off for it, and then she can really play with Phoenix.

What is sad is both of my girls came from the pound and neither knew how to play, and never really tried til Phoenix came along! Leave it up to a BC puppy to teach the old gals how to play!!! Tooooooo cute!

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Becca-

 

Julie's right, the way to diagnose an ACL tear is with a drawer test done by a vet. An x-ray won't show it but an MRI does, but they're pretty cost prohibitive. The problem generally with a partial tear is that arthritis sets in pretty fast and usually a dog will tear it all the way. That's not always the case though and I'm not a vet, I've just had experience with ACL's and have done a lot of research. Do you have Ollie on some sort of anti-inflamatory now? That would probably make him feel better along with crate rest and leash walks. Maybe he just twisted his knee jumping/getting thrown out of his lousy owner's truck. He does look like an Aussie to me. I was at an agility trial today and met someone with an Aussie with a tail that was bred in Norway and I swear until the person said the dog was an Aussie I thought it was a border collie. It looked sooo different than most of the Aussie' I see, even the few with tails. The dog I saw today actually could be almost a twin of Ollie from what I see in the pictures you posted.

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Joe Ann,

Thanks for mentioning steps since I forgot to mention it. Becca, steps are a major no-no for dogs with knee problems. I think you already have a ramp in place, so you just need to make sure the Ollie uses it instead of the steps. If there isn't a ramp, then you need to either build one or carry Ollie up and down. Not fun, but since I lived upstairs in the two-story house, I did indeed carry Jill up and down. We did build a ramp from the back porch out to the back yard (and it's still there), but in the house, I carried her up and down for the first month or two and then after that she was allowed to *walk* up and down slowly, which means I had to have my hand on her collar to make sure we maintained a sedate pace....

 

J.

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OK, Ollie's getting his knee looked at right now. The vet spotted a couple other problems that indicated he had possibly even gotten struck by the truck as he chased it - recently lost front teeth and severe abrasions in his mouth, on his head, and on one side. Grrrr.

 

She's doing an x-ray to make sure there's no injury to the joint as well but for sure there's a cruciate tear. I'm going to do everything I can to make sure those wretched people didn't screw up his chance to live up to his potential.

 

My initial feeling is that he'd love to do competitive obedience. I thought when I first brought him home that he was "clingy" but he's not, he's people focused to an extreme. I think he was struck frequently in his previous home because he watches my hands constantly - I'm turning that into a fun thing by carrying yummy treats all the time. I don't want to stop him watching my hands, I just want him to stop carefully backing out of reach if my hands get near his head.

 

My friend who's a serious obedience person got all excited when I told her about Ollie. :cool: She's going to meet him tomorrow and she'll tell me what she thinks about his potential.

 

Anyway, of course he won't have a future in any sport at all if his injury is permanently disabling. That would really stink because he IS an active dog with tons of brains and a super-willing spirit. I'll do the best I can for him, therefore.

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Every ones information is good, with abnormal movement (drawer sign) torn ligament along with the Meniscus sp?? I never get it right, but anyway there are several repairs available. The newest one not mentioned, is TPLO Tibial plane Leveling Osteotomy. That is also the most expensive and has to be done by specialists certified in that procedure. We do several here most days, mostly on labs. I hope you get some answers that will help Ollie out. One thing I'm sure you will do anyway is take a little time and research what will be the best solution for his future activity. We had an Agility dog in here (top ranked) and one of our surgeons was invited to attend his return to competition after TPLO surgery. So check out the different options he may be better off than you think. Also our facility gives discounts to rescue groups that bring dogs in for treatment. Good luck, he "landed" in a good spot.

Andrea D.

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Thanks, emmetteabrakai. This guy's really good from what I've heard.

 

He's got the money now to go get checked out as soon as we can get an appointment. Since it's an acute condition I'm sure we'll get in quickly. I will be calling first thing in the morning.

 

YAY!

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Anbdrea writes:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Every ones information is good, with abnormal movement (drawer sign) torn ligament along with the Meniscus sp?? I never get it right, but anyway there are several repairs available. The newest one not mentioned, is TPLO Tibial plane Leveling Osteotomy.

 

That's the surgery Brandy had; it was well worth the expense!

Barb S

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