What Kind Of Dog Food?

[Circle C]

Well, I have heard that the food I am currently feeding isn't quality and can cause health problems.

 

Is there any inespensive dry feeds that you guys recommend??

 

*I wanted to try Wellness....it's just WAY to expensive for my budget and # of dogs and I have to drive an hour to get it.*

[Pipedream Farm]

Diamond Hi Energy Sporting Dog Formula (about $18 for 50lb bag). I know many of you won't like "meat meal" but we have to go with our observed results.

 

Mark

[Cheri McDonald]

Canidae $45.00 for 35 lbs. Our two have done wonderful on it and all allergies and itchies have disappeared.

[Circle C]

Tell me what you think about these ingredients ::

 

Porcine Meat Meal (Pork), Ground Yellow Corn, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Ground Wheat, Wheat Middlings, Animal Fat (preserved with BHA), Corn Gluten Meal, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Biotin.

[SoloRiver]

Yuck.

[Cheri McDonald]

Double Yuck.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

We feed our livestock guardian dogs Diamond Hi Energy and they haven't died yet. (c: Feeding three hundred pound dogs is no joke so we do the best we can. I can't even feed raw for the price of the Hi Energy (I figured out I'd have to find a raw meaty bone source at less than 20 cents a pound). I don't like the fact that they have shedding problems but I just do the seasonal grooming and live with the scruffy look.

 

When we just had the one dog, a Maremma/Pyr cross (littermate to the famous Rosie that Don McCaig has spoken of on NPR), we fed her what the rest of the dogs ate and there was a HUGE difference in the shedding - her coat shed out nicely with no big mats. But, you do what you have to do.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm not a big fan of feeds that are almost all grains and grain fillers, especially grains that are difficult to digest and have high allergenic values, like corn and wheat. I don't think the savings in money is worth the volume of poop pickup, hair removal, and possible dental problems and allergies. But that's just me - it's a matter of what one can tolerate personally.

[CoRayBee]

Casey, I'd suggest using the 'search' key in the upper right corner of the screen and type in something like 'diet.' You'll get a wealth of info.

 

For the record...

 

Ground Yellow Corn- cheap undigestable filler/allergen

Dehulled Soybean Meal- cheap protein source/allergen

Ground Wheat- allergen

Wheat Middlings- the stuff they sweep up off the floor

BHA- seriously scary chemical preservative that is a known carcinogen

Corn Gluten Meal- see Ground Yellow Corn and add a 'yuck'

Salt- something that a dog's body cannot process in large amounts, and can lead to kidney damage.

[Rave]

Becca/Mark: I looked at the Diamond hi energy ingredients...what exactly is poultry digest? made my stomach turn.... do all their foods have that?

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Uh, poultry digest isn't all that great - it falls into my category of "stuff I wouldn't want to eat unless I were desperate." It's butcher leftovers, if I'm not mistaken - feet, heads, feathers, crop. Slightly better than, say, wheat or grain middlings which wouldn't do me a bit of good to eat (and I can't imagine does the dog any good either) but not as good as "fresh chicken" or even chicken meal. But I remember that there are PEOPLE around here who eat stuff like the poultry leftovers, so it can't be all that bad. Plus, if I gave a whole dead chicken to my dog, he'd gladly eat the head, feathers, and he'd go straight for the guts first (please excuse me if you're eating lunch right not). Most would leave the feet but they'd eat them if that was it.

 

The big problem I have with stuff like that is the processing. It takes away the nutrients the dogs need to digest that stuff - yeah, dogs will eat fresh bird feet and feathers, but they usually start with yummy fresh meat, bone marrow, and gut contents packed full of living enzymes and probiotics.

 

At some point I REALLY want to add some fresh meat and bones to the guard dog's diet somehow but I really can't right now.

[Pipedream Farm]

...what exactly is poultry digest?

From AAFCO

Poultry Digest - material which results from chemical and/or enzymatic hydrolysis of clean and undecomposed poultry tissue.

Sounds a lot like the gelatin in Jell-O; do you think of Jell-O as not good for you? If you'd like I can quote how gelatin is made (chemically). BTW jams, jelly, and gummy bears are all made with gelatin.

 

 

.... do all their foods have that?

No

 

Premium Adult Formula for Dogs (26% Protein & 18% Fat)

 

Ingredients

Chicken by-product meal, whole grain ground corn, wheat flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), brewers rice, beet pulp, fish meal, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganese oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Beef Meal & Rice Formula for Dogs (25% Protein & 15% Fat)

 

Ingredients

Beef meal, brewers rice, wheat flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), chicken meal, beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin Kactivity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Professional Formula for Dogs (30% Protein & 20% Fat)

Ingredients

Chicken by-product meal, whole grain ground corn, wheat flour, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), brewers rice, beet pulp, fish meal, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, brewers dried yeast, potassium chloride, salt, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganese oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (source of vitamin K activity), riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

[Rave]

well now I'm curious Mark, what IS jello made of? I don't eat jello, I'm just curious.

[Pipedream Farm]

Jell-O

gelatin

water

sugar or artificial sweetener and artificial flavors

food coloring

 

Note that besides Jell-O there are lots of things made with gelatin (soft-gel caps, hard capsuals, and often used as a thickener in foods, etc).

 

Mark

 

PDRhealth: Gelatin has many uses in the food and pharmaceutical industries. Nutritionally, it is an incomplete protein because it lacks L-tryptophan. It is used in foods as stabilizers, thickeners and texturizers. Pharmaceutically, it is used as an encapsulating agent. Gelatin capsules are widely used both in the pharmaceutical and nutritional supplement industries.

 

Recently, gelatin subjected to greater hydrolysis in order to produce water-soluble peptides of various molecular weights has entered the nutritional supplement marketplace for use in bone and joint health. The gelatin peptides are rich in the amino acids found in collagen, including L-proline, L-hydroxyproline and glycine. Gelatin and hydrolyzed collagen are similar (see Hydrolyzed Collagen).

GELATIN MANUFACTURE.

 

There are a large number of unit processes used in the manufacture of gelatin and the raw materials from which it is derived are demineralised bone (called ossein), pigskin, cow hide, fish skin and in China, donkey hide is also used quite extensively. In theory there is no reason for excluding any collagen source from the manufacture of gelatin, but the ones above are the currently commercially available raw materials. Interestingly, in countries where pork is sold with its skin intact, there is no pigskin available for gelatin manufacture.

 

There are basically two processes by which collagen is processed to gelatin:

 

The acid process (studied in detail by Reich (9)) is mainly used with pigskin and fish skin and sometimes bone raw materials. It is basically one in which the collagen is acidified to about pH 4 and then heated stepwise from 50?C to boiling to denature and solubilize the collagen. Thereafter the denatured collagen or gelatin solution has to be defatted, filtered to high clarity, concentrated by vacuum evaporation or membrane ultra-filtration treatment, to a reasonably high concentration for gelation and then drying by passing dry air over the gel. The final process is one of grinding and blending to customer requirements and packaging. The resulting gelatin has an isoionic point of 7 to 9 based on the severity and duration of the acid processing of the collagen which causes limited hydrolysis of the asparagine and glutamine amino acid side chains.

 

 

The alkali process (studied in detail by Cole and Roberts (10)) is used on bovine hide and collagen sources where the animals are relatively old at slaughter. The process is one in which collagen is submitted to a caustic soda or lengthy liming process prior to extraction. The alkali hydrolyses the asparagine and glutamine side chains to glutamic and aspartic acid relatively quickly (11), with the result that the gelatin has a traditional isoionic point of 4.8 to 5.2, however, with shortened (7 days or less) alkali treatment, isoionic points as high as 6 are produced. After the alkali processing, the collagen is washed free of alkali and treated with acid to the desired extraction pH (which has a marked effect on the gel strength to viscosity ratio of the final product). The collagen is then denatured and converted to gelatin by heating, as with the acid process. Because of the alkali treatment, it is often necessary to demineralise the gelatin solution to remove excessive amounts of salts using ion-exchange or ultrafiltration. Thereafter the process is the same as for the acid process - vacuum evaporation, filtration, gelation, drying, grinding and blending.

[Rave]

That's awesome! Gelatin's made from animal hides & bones. Whod've thunkit? Thanks Mark! I can't wait to tell my vegetarian friends!

[Pipedream Farm]

Not just an issue for vegetarians but also for those with religious dietary restrictions since the source may include pork.

 

Mark

[Circle C]

Well, here is the new food I bought. Tell me if these ingrediants are any better than the ones the posted reviously:

 

Natural Choice:

 

Lamb meal, ground rice, rice flour, rice bran, sunflower oil (preserved w/ mixed tocopherols, a sourse of vitamin E), poultry fat (preserved w/ mixed tocopherols, a source off natural vitamin E), natural flavors, rice gluten, dried egg product, dried beet pulp, potassium chloride, L-Lysine, dried kelp (source of iodine), salt, choline Chloride, zinc sulfate, vitamin E supplement, taurine, ferrous sulfate, Ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), biotin, copper proteinate, niacin, manganous oxide, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), vitamin A supplement, glucosamine hydrochloride, chondroitin sulfate, Pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), vitamin D3 supplement, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, folic acid.

[tildy]

Bil-Jack recently just switched duchess loves it..first food in 2 1/2 yrs I found that dog will eat!..

[muggs]

My "old man" (18 in June) is on Nutro Natural Choice (young pup is on Innova). The Natural Choice has worked well for the senior dog for a few years now, so it can't be too bad if he looks good, tolerates it well at almost 18! The young pup doesn't like to eat very much- that's the reason I put him on a high-cal food like Innova.

[Shelby Kennels]

Casey - Ground rice, rice flour, rice bran (all within first four ingredients) and rice gluten...hmmm. I prefer to stay away from as much grain & fillers as possible. However, like Mark stated you have to look at how the dog responds / looks on the food. I have seen some older dogs being fed what I would deem as crap that look great and are still going strong. Let me also add that I know of one 8- 9 year old dog on Purina Dog Chow whose working days are about over and the owner is wondering why. Duh.

[Pumpkingirl]

I use Nutro Naturel Choice. Lamb and Rice.

[tommy777]

Hi -- I am new to this forum- I live in New Zealand and have two border collies- one is a year and 1/2 and the older one is 12 years old.

 

The 12 year old is in great shape- vet thinks so too-- doesnt show any signs of arthritis-- although he doesnt move as fast as he used to.

 

I hope I don't make a bad impression when I admit-- I feed mine Purina.

Nutro, Iams, Science Diet, and Wellness are imported and cost about $30 per bag in New Zealand. Purina only costs $9.00.

However, I also feed them about 6 raw meaty bones a week, three each. I buy the soup bones for humans from the meat counter at the grocery store becuase they have lots of raw meat and the bones are big but soft (i think they are back bones)- This cost is $6.00. Once a week I also make them a special dinner- One can Salmon low salt, high in Omega 3, one cup brown rice, one cup green beans cooked. That cost about $6.00. So, total it cost $21.00 per week to feed my two dogs. If I fed them Iams, Nutro, or Wellness it would cost at least $30.00. or $36.00 if I still bought them the meaty bones.

 

 

I would also like to add...

I think that meaty bones are really important in a dog diet. Also, I think the worst thing you can do concerning food for a border collie is over feeding. Make sure dog looks lean and feel them and make sure they have muscle tone but are not boney. If they seem fat you are feeding them too much-- and I think the feeding labels on the bags encourage over feeding and tell you to give them too much- because they are in the business of selling dog food.

 

Cheers

Tommy

[Shin Okami]

I'm poor but I've forgotten about budgets for dogs. I think I spend most of my money on them. If you were in British Columbia I'd recommend Firstmate because it's decent AND cheap. Otherwise, I don't know. I think supplementing with raw DOES bring your costs down a bit more, but then I might just be kidding myself.

 

OT: Is this the same Caseyolee from the Dogtracker board?