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Gibber

Worms Still!!

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Okay gang....what's going on here? I have used the liquid OTC wormer that rids pups/dogs from roundworms and hookworms three times now. The third time everything seemed better. Well, I took Sampson in yesterday (Saturday) and the vet used a paste that he said was very similar to the OTC stuff I used, but that it may be more comprehensive as the OTC stuff can be dliuted. Well, his last poop of the evening last night was FULL of roundworms!! All of his voids today have been worm free though, but he continues to bite at his back end. Can there be worm eggs in his food? This was a brand new bag of unopened dog food that is well reputed and I can't imagine that being the case but I am now reaching for answers. Should I worm him again tonight with my OTC stuff or what? Someone that I ran into thru my work has a dairy farm and has a SUPER reputation for raising very good BC's and she told me I might want to consider doing the worming 3 days in a row. That's what she does. I live on a farm but only have about 50 head of cattle and Sampson will NOT be working them.....but there is manure around the house that I have seen him go to a couple of times. He has not consumed any but could he get them from the manure? By stepping on it and then licking his feet? Any more/new advice? Thanks!

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Originally posted by Gibber:

I took Sampson in yesterday (Saturday) and the vet used a paste that he said was very similar to the OTC stuff I used, but that it may be more comprehensive as the OTC stuff can be dliuted. Well, his last poop of the evening last night was FULL of roundworms!! All of his voids today have been worm free though, but he continues to bite at his back end. Should I worm him again tonight with my OTC stuff or what? Someone that I ran into thru my work has a dairy farm and has a SUPER reputation for raising very good BC's and she told me I might want to consider doing the worming 3 days in a row. That's what she does. I live on a farm but only have about 50 head of cattle and Sampson will NOT be working them.....but there is manure around the house that I have seen him go to a couple of times. He has not consumed any but could he get them from the manure? By stepping on it and then licking his feet? Any more/new advice? Thanks!

I guess I'd drop back to the old concept of "Ask your vet."

 

Many worms are species specific. I don't know if Sampson could pick up an infestation from the manure of ruminants. If that was so, my dogs would have a real problem as pups as they consume all the manure they can get when we are in the fields and barn. That would be a question for the vet.

 

Did the vet take a stool sample and do a flotation to determine just what kinds of worms Sampson has?

 

The wormer the vet administered may have been "more comprehensive" as the vet stated and so, did it remove worms that the OTC did not remove?

 

If the OTC only removed worms of a certain stage, the vet-administered paste may have removed worms that matured to that stage in the meantime.

 

I think you need to talk to your vet again and explain your concerns. If the vet can't or won't answer your questions satisfactorily, you might need a new vet.

 

I doubt that kibble would contain worm eggs. Plus, kibble is processed which includes cooking, so anything like that in it should be killed by the processing.

 

You surely are experiencing a real problem with worms and your pup. Call the vet and get your questions answered. If the vet recommends it, perhaps you could use the paste yourself several times.

 

As for biting his hind end, if he has been irritated by the worms, it might take a few days before he feels better. Also, if he has developed a habit of doing this, it might be self-perpetuating - he bites, it's irritated, he bites, etc.

 

One site you might check out is http://www.geocities.com/black_dog_farm/BCLinks.html It has a wealth of Border Collie related links and might have some that can answer some of your questions about worms and worming.

 

Good luck with this problem and your efforts to make Sampson happy and healthy.

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Thanks Sue. You know, I wasn't all that pleased with the vet. My usual vet was out of town (football game, his alma mater...I understood) and the vet that filled in didn't seem all that thorough. Anyway, I went ahead and used the OTC again last night and no worms in any of his voids, as of this post. Maybe they are finally gone. I will continue to watch and see what happens....keeping the vets phone number handy. Thanks again.

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Gibber, my advice to you is to contact your regular vet when he gets back.

 

Tell him that you had Sampson in, and that you are still concerned about worms, that the substitute vet did not do a test for determining your pup's worm infestation, etc., or give you adequate information about what to expect or do as follow-up to this visit and treatment.

 

Your vet should be willing to stand behind the work his substitute does, by providing you with the information and/or reassurances you need, or being willing to see your pup himself and give you the information you need.

 

Again, the website I addressed above has lots of information about all aspects of Border Collies (and dogs in general). There are many references concerning internal parasites and products used to treat them. You might be able to find information you need there but I would contact your regular vet if I were you.

 

Good luck!

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For roundworms, many use pyrantel pamoate (strongid T) and repeat in 10 days to get any eggs that hatched. The other choice in panacur that is repeated for three days. I have had vets say that the otc materials are often not very effective because they are weaker (for public safety), and a less effective wormer. I never checked.

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The worms seem to be gone finally. He's had quite a few bowel movements with no sign of any worms. His activity level has increased and he seems happier. He does still seem to grab at his tail every once in awhile though. I will probably worm him again on Wednesday night and if any worms show up Thursday morning I am calling the vet. Thanks to everyone for your input, it's greatly appreciated.

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Gibber, some pups will grab their tails in play. If you see him do this, give him something more interesting to do.

 

He may also have some residual irritation or fussing at his butt may have become a habit. Give any irritation some time to go away and distract him with something else if he fusses at himself.

 

My young dog is a real "anal gland cleaner-upper". I was worried he had a problem and took him to the vet. Seems he's just extra diligent at keeping his backside clean, probably when he slightly expresses his glands.

 

I am glad you and Sampson have hung out the "No Vacancy" sign for worms. Other posts have pointed out that pups with high worm burdens that are not treated properly and in a timely and diligent manner, can be seriously compromised with their health or even die of anemia, blockages, or other complications.

 

Great job and good luck!

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Sue....yeah, he "plays" with his tail occasionally but this is more like...."wait, I must quit running and stop to bite this irritation that continues to be the bane of my existence" kinda thing. His elimination continue to be free of any worms, at least that I can see. I am giving him until tomorrow night before I take any further action.

 

Bill....even though the eliminations are free of any visible worms could there be eggs in the elimination? Will the wormers kill the eggs or larvae of worms?

 

Thanks to both of you for the responses!

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Gibber, pups think in the "here and now". That's one thing that makes them so endearing and unpredicatlbe.

 

It is possible he has some residual irritation or it may be a habit. I am sure the vet can check it out and assure you if the behavior doesn't stop.

 

Good luck to you and Sampson!

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I'm not sure, but I would not count on wormers killing worms eggs within the pup. They will certainly not kill worm eggs that are in the environment, and since he has been carrying the worm burden for a while, he will probably get reinfested.

 

The label on the generic pyrantel pamoate dog wormer that have recommends worming pups at 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, and 10 weeks. This should clean up any infestation and keep the environment fairly clean until the pup starts to build up a little immunity. After that point, monthly should do the trick. We use a heartworm medication that also includes a dose of pyrantel.

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