amc Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 My husband's 7 year old working BC has been limping off and on for a few months, on her right hind leg. At first we thought it was a toe sprain. It would improve with rest but even with light work she would later pack the leg for a day. Next we assumed it was her knee. Our generalist vet examined her unsedated and did not feel she had ligamentous injury to the knee. Sally's quite a competitive trials dog, so we weren't comfortable with a vague diagnosis, so he took her to an orthopaedic specialist some 4 1/2 hours away. After a careful exam, the specialist diagnosed a fracture of her gastrocnemius fabellum, and X-rays confirmed it. There is a surgical option, but as the fabellum is not shattered or displaced, he suggested a month of crate rest and anti-inflammatories. Anyone else had this problem, or heard of it? AK Dog Doc, are you off call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Amy, I have a friend whose dog just had surgery for a torn ACL and fabellar fracture. In this dog's case, they removed the fabella while they were repairing the cruciate. I will e-mail her and ask her to e-mail you privately. I don't know how much real information she got from the orthopedic surgeon, but she amy be able to share something with you. Oops, I just went to your profile and no e-mail address is listed. If you will contact me at poudrier@ inteliport.com (remove the space) I will forward your address to my friend. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Am off call, but have to go in to work soon here anyway... The fabellae are little bones behind the knee, which your specialist probably pointed out on the Xray. They're pretty tiny, so there wouldn't be a good way to surgically repair them. They are, however, surrounded by soft tissue, and that means good blood supply, which in turn means good healing ability. So I'd say there's a very good chance that if you rest the dog (to minimize tension and wear on the healing bone) you can have a full recovery. These are not bones that are directly weight-bearing, so there are not the same worries about if the bone heals smoothly as if it were, say, a bone in the wrist. Let me know if you have other questions about the fabellae in general; I'd be happy to answer what I can, but I'm not an orthopedic specialist, so I'd bow to his/her opinion of the injury and the prognosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 I have nothing to contribute, Amy, but I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear that this happened to Sally. Luckily it sounds like the prognosis is good. Wishing her well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rac Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Thanks Eileen. As fate would have it the ortho specialist said that it's most likely the explosive running (esp. the take-off) and doing that sort of thing from a crouching position that has predisposed her to this. Being an old ER nurse I could really appreciate his professionalism in sorting this out. He took a brief history (and actually wrote things down:) He examined her while she was standing on the floor, and within a very short time told me that it was not a cruciate and that her patella and her knee in general were good. He knew what was up by the time she went for the x-rays, and the x-rays just confirmed the exam findings. With the bone not actually shattered the main problem seems to be the attachment of the gastrocnemius to the femur. This is what has to heal. Without regular work Sally gets a little flaky, so she ought to be pretty whacky indeed before this is all over. After the rest period I plan to raise her stress level very slowly, so we'll be doing leash walks in town for awhile before she gets back on sheep. Putting her back to work is the scary part because when I ask her to do something she always goes 110%. I can't ask her to take it easy. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Slightly to one side of the topic, I always did wonder whether we should be doing warm up exercises with our dogs between pulling them out of a crate and sending them 400 plus yards. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgt Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 That's an interesting point, Andrea. I usually try to have my dog out and walking about for 15-20 minutes before a run. But that doesn't seem terribly impressive, warm-up-wise. And in a trial I ran in last weekend, I was setting sheep with one dog right up to my other dog's turn. I pretty much had to run to my truck, dump a dog out of her crate by the handler's post and send her. And it was cold and snowy. This can't be good. What kind of warm-up exercises do people do with dogs before doing something athletic/strenuous? I guess now I wish I'd taught my dogs to strrrrrretch. charlie torre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Well, I don't do a damn thing other than take 'em out to look for sheep, maybe, and take a leak. But I do think about it sometimes, especially on really cold days. Guess nobody does anything more than me or we would have heard by now. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Tuckers acupuncturist (sp) slash chiropractor gave me all sorts of warmup exercises for him...he has spondolosis (sp) (andera quit laughing at me!) in his lower back near his tail...she also says he is supposed to wear a coat to keep his back muscles warm...ughhhhh I can just hear My buddies now if I show up at the trial with him in his little warm up suit...we have settled for lining his crate with many blankets and when no one is looking I will lay my coat over him and act like it just slipped off my chair! I tell you though, I dont know how much I believe in the witchdoctor stuff, but you know it ALWAYS works. I thought I would have to retire him and he had quite the fall to say he only runs at trials since all the young ones get the work...probably best that way to save his back though. Sorry to hear about Sally Ray. Stinks to get a dog like that and then have injuries hit em at their prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackacre Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Soooooo? What were they and how do you get him to do them?This I've gotta see. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Just lots of different stretches, and massage techniques. She does all sorts of stuff with them..Poor Tuck you should seem him with all the litte needles in his back and on his head..then she hooks those up to her little electric box....He looks like frankenstein..but boy does he like it! You just cant believe the difference in him, course some of those back problems kind of resolve themselves when the area fuses a bit and doesnt put pressure on the nerve (dont ask me to explain, dont know the technical speak, but made perfect sense when she explained it all) I was worming with him not too long ago and I called him out of the pen, well expected him to go around, he jumped thru the top of the guilitine gate, into the 15 inch wide chute and over the side of that all from a standstill..Nimble as a cat..Made a believer out of me for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rac Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Thanks Sam. I remember meeting you when we came to VA, so I know you've seen Sally. Man, that turned out to be a great trial... both Nursery and Open competitions were really good. It may take some time to get her back on the field, but we'll get there. I finally realized something was really wrong during our Saturday run at a CA trial in early November. As she was finishing the fetch and beginning the turn I could see she wasn't moving right. I stopped watching the sheep and started watching her. She was mentally into the run, but I didn't like the double-pumping I noticed she was doing with her hind legs. We took the sheep to exhaust, and I scratched her run the next day. We usually hit these fall and spring trials pretty hard, so she's going to be out for the prime of our season. There's really nothing to do except look at the bright side and give more of the training time to my young dogs coming up. I have one in Nursery and another learning her fundamentals, so there's lots to do there. I just wanted to say something about chiropractic since you brought it up. My Peggy hurt her back over 3 yrs ago (she just turned 11 earlier this month). We had her evaluated by a neuro-surgeon (sounds scary eh?) who thought she was probably a surgical candidate. Peggy really was hurt and could hardly walk. Time wasn't healing it either. We found a chiropractor (whose practice is with humans) that also does dogs, and what a lucky find that was for us. After 2 visits he wanted her to start some light work again. I nearly fell out of my chair when he said that, but chiropractors don't like their patients just laying around too much. Later that year she was out on the trial field again. I used to think that chiropractors were kind of hokey, but now I think that if you've got a problem that they can address... go for it. We still go see him from time to time, and like your Tuck she just feels great after the treatment. She runs with more energy, and the spring comes back in her step. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 rac, did the human chiropractor charge you for treatment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I went to a human Chiro guy, not sure if he was vet certified or not, but he charged me. that was when I lived in Suffolk though... Yes Ray, I remember Sally well...as I say a real shame..but hopefully she will get better...the darned dogs will break your heart for sure..I am going thru something similar with my Grace. I really was a team with her and ever since she had puppies she went queer on me. I have had her to all manner of vets and we cant find anything..the only thing left for me to do is an MRI for her neck and spine and a test to check her hearing...unfortunately it is apparently very hard and very costly to determine LEVEL of hearing in dogs and no real tests to determine how it would corrolate(sp?) to her working ability...so who the hell knows. Bringing her slowly back to work and hoping for the best... Good luck with Sally and get a kick ass nursery one ready while you are waiting. We know you are up to that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 So, not trying to be a pain (or any more of one than usual! ) and FWIW, if a non-veterinarian charges you for any veterinary procedure - including chiropracty - that constitutes practicing veterinary medicine without a liscence, and could result in very serious consequences for the chiropractor, including possibly the loss of his own liscence. Or so they told us in Veterinary Jurisprudence. So if you like the chiropractor involved, you might just mention that to them, since they may not be aware of the veterinary statutes. From a medical standpoint, I personally object to this because they don't know the anatomy. (Since I don't do chiropractic work myself, if is certainly not an income issue - I refer all my chiropractic patients, to a veterinary chiropractor. I recieve no income for this, but I feel comfortable that my patients are being seen by a competent practitioner and my clients are being seen by one who is practicing in accordance with both medical law and ethics.) I can think of at least 3 veterinary chiropractors in a 50 mile radius even up here, so surely there must be such practitioners available down there? At any rate, I'd hate to see someone who is basically well-meaning but ignorant of the legal issues get into trouble on this. The analagous thing would be if I were to (for instance) do your root canal and then charge you for it. Even though I know how to do a root canal, and am legally and medically qualified to do one on any animal EXCEPT humans (up to and including non-human primates), just the fact that I might do a competent job does NOT mean I should be charging people for it. Or doing it at all, for that matter. Possibly I am just overprotective towards my patients (and clients) but it bothers me to think that someone who isn't trained to manage their medical concerns might attempting to do so, and profiting by it illegally. JMO, and I'm off my soapbox now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 No, not at all..I suspected as much when you asked about it. I am not even aware of this guys name now as it was 4 yrs ago or so that I went...and only once...The lady I go to now is a licensed Vet and has set up a wonderful sport injury type rehab center. A wonderful woman, I owe her tons..I will ask my friend that lives over there if she still knows whats up with that other guy and see if he is licensed or not... So hows the weather up there? Balmy I bet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Well, if by balmy, you mean 12 degrees with a stiff breeze, why then yes, it IS balmy! VERY balmy! But it was a gorgeous day, sunny and clear. I went downstairs this morning to discover a cow-calf moose pair in my yard (I love it when they come to visit - in fact, I wish they'd eat ALL my willow, and about half the alder...) The dogs were veeeeeery quiet. (I did not let them out.) Got one shot of the cow with my digital camera (the yearling was in the woods until the cow got annoyed by the incessant barking of a neighbor's dog - loose, on the lake, GRR! - and decided it was time to go.) Glad you found a vet chirproactor - I love the one I refer my patients to. I trust her completely, and she has an excellent bedside manner. She is just the most easygoing, kindhearted person. She also does some acupuncture and other alternative therapies, which are gaining popularity up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 Yep this lady is like that as well, I just adore her. Sound pretty rustic up there, can honestly say I have never woken up to that in my pasture!!! Yawn, out to do last walk in the kennel...god, just one day where I dont have to walk a dog every ten minutes pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Yeah right so then I would just have lots of time to pace back and forth to the computer and complain on the internet board about how bored I am..Yeah right! Nite! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Sam, you MUST be talking about Regina....she's done wonders for all my dogs as well. Well worth the 2.5 hour drive to see her. -Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Yep that is her..I had so many dogs she needed to see, she was making house calls here for awhile...I refer everyone to her for the chiropractic stuff and acupuncture..and Dr Bradley in Manasis for any ortho work...both are wonderful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 I've never done the chiropractic stuff but I have been to Dr. Bradley's in Manassas. They are great ortho surgeons. I keep thinking I will try out the massage/chiropractic/acupuncture stuff. I just need to find someone that does not cost an arm/leg and 2 toes but is still good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Regina isnt much. Last time I went, I had her do Tucker, work up Grace and look at my little Libby who either ran into a tree or got smacked by another dog and dislocated her hip. (was taken to ortho guy first but just wanted her to do a follow up check) and I think the bill was 90.00. Maybe 65.00 of it being Tucker who got the works...Guess I dont get sticker shock anymore, but I think that is pretty reasonable esp for the results it has got me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 That is a good price but she is about 2 hours away give or take so is sort of out of the way. Maybe I should call her and see if she recommends someone... now that is a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucknjill Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 Yep I am sure she would do that for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rave Posted February 1, 2004 Report Share Posted February 1, 2004 Aaw come on Kim, 2 hours is nothing. I drive at least that to see her and so do a bunch of other folks from NC. You could always stop by on your way to tourneys. Regina is very reasonable cost-wise as Sam stated. Everyone I've ever referred there has been thrilled with her and the results she gets. Of course, now it's making it harder to get appointments...LOL! And a bonus for you Kim, she used to do flyball before she got so busy with her business, so knows exactly what stresses that puts the dogs under. -Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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