Lenore Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Hello I need help we bought this black and white bc a week ago weds. He was healthy for 2 days.. Playing eating etc.. Then the diarahha started and not eating. Took him to the vet and was diagnoissed Giardia. Gave him meds said he should show improvement next day. Today is the next day he is loosing weight still throwing up and diarrha.No energy and is so scared of us he wont even look at us. We have had to force feed him and force the meds into him. We have been cleaning up after him for 3 days now. The breeder we got him from is no help. Claims the rest of the litter is healthy. We were told from our vet that the dog got this from drinking from dirty water. I have 2 other dogs who are healthy . Im afriad this pup is dying or will have other health issues as it gets older. Never mind about the bonding and forming a realtionship with him.MY son picked this dog out and is going to be heartbroken if he doesnt make it. Does anyone have any experience with this illness? Can anyone give me some hope that it will be ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 I think a phone call to your vet is in order. If he's not eating and has diarrhea, then he is likely dehydrated and could need fluid therapy. If he's throwing up, then it's unlikely that the oral meds are staying down long enough to do any good. Your best and safest bet is to take him back to the vet for follow up or at least talk to the vet on the phone ASAP for additional advice. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenore Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 We have been in contact with the vet. He was at the vets yesterday gave him liquid meds.. and his yearly shots. The doctor force feed him some food and sent us home. said he would improve by this morning. No improvement is at the vets recieveing iv care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Lenore, I would go find another vet and get a second opinion. Giardia can be very serious and your vet does not seem to be doing much. If the dog is still this sick then it needs to be seen again. Plus the vet gave an extremely sick dog vaccinations which I think is wrong. Also force feeding a dog will not make them better. Go find another vet or you will end up loosing this puppy. This is just my opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaileysMom Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Do you have a homeopathic vet in your area? They focus not only on treating your dog with the least toxic cure, but also improving the whole immune system. I agree, the fact that your vet gave the pup vaccinations while it is sick is absolutely terrible! A good vet would never give a sick dog shots. Your pups immune system is stressed enough without adding to it. Has your pup been tested for worms? Bailey had giardia when a pup, his stool tests were negative for worms. But my homeopathic vet treated him for worms anyway, not the giardia at first. She said they normally go hand in hand. She said that even if the stool tests negative for worms she will enter the dogs colon with a microscope and there will be tons of worms. Also some probiotics were given to keep the good stomach bacteria up. Giardia is hard to explain-AKC Doc may be able to help. Many dogs show no symtoms, and even people have this in their intestines in small amounts. It sounds as if there is another issue, and the giardia is only adding to it. I would find another vet. Call around and ask each vet what their procedure is for treating giardia. Find one who has a procedure other than "stuff with meds and give vaccines to further weaken the immune system." There are some great natural dog health books that address giardia-I have some at home. I forget off the top of my head, its been a while since I dealt with this. I will post this evening with some of the holistic views and cures. From what I remember giardia is very hard to get rid off-and often not the main problem. Meds don't usually work. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaileysMom Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Also, did you switch foods? Or are you still feeding him what the breeder fed him? Switching foods abruptly can cause diarhha and vomitting. Not to say he isn't sick, just that it could add to the problem. Are you now feeding a bland diet? Just rice boiled with extra water-it needs to be thoroughly cooked and some boiled chicken or beef. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaileysMom Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Sorry to keep posting! You said your vet gave liquid meds. What for? I don't know of any liquid meds for giardia. Only two I know of, Flagyl and something else, both a pill. And to say that your pup should be better the next day...not if the cause of the problem still exists. Giardia can be difficult to get rid off, and can require remedicating every few weeks til totally gone. I know it is hard not to worry, but giardia should not be life threatening if treated properly. Please find another vet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenore Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 OK.. let me see if i can address all of your questions. Number one we have the best vet in our county been with him for 20 years!He gave him his shots because we have no record that the breeder gave him any! The liquid meds he is giving him is flagyl. liquid becaue he wasnt eating and had to get it down him someway! That is the normal recomended meds for Giardia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenore Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 allrighty... on saturday when the dog first became ill. we thought it was the change in food. we called the breeder and it wasnt what he was use to.We purchased the brand he used but the dog quit eating and hasnt had any. Also if it was just the food the dog would of improved by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenore Posted January 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Yes he was tested for worms.. none at this time. This dog has lost one pound from yesterday to today.Yes there might be something else going on that is why he is at the vets all day today getting iv meds and liquids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaileysMom Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 I wish you the best. Hope your pup gets well soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 When mine had the Giardia, the vet gave us Metronidazole 250mg for five days. It didn't kill it all so we had to do the same two weeks later. Tablet works better for me when they are throwing up and not eating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 Hi Lenore - sorry I came to this post late; I was on call last night until this morning, which severely limits my internet access (since I don't have cable modem). First the background on Giardia - it's a protozoan parasite which is present everywhere in the world. I don't know how common it is in TX, but up here it's not at all uncommon. It can be tough to diagnose - diagnosis is usually based on either a fecal flotation, a fecal smear, or an occult giardia test. If one of these tests has come up positive, then you have AT LEAST that to deal with, but as others have pointed out there may be other problems as well. Was a parvo test done, by chance? Given that this pup was 16 weeks old with NO vaccine before you got him, that is certainly a possibility. So are worms, and coccidia (another protozoan parsite), and some other possibilities. My usual first choice treatment for giardia is metronidazole, otherwise know as Flagyl. However, some strains of Giardia are resistant, in which case I may try a wormer called Panacur (fenbendazole). This has the advantage that if there are other (undiagnosed) worms present, it should knock them out too. Coccidia is treated with a different drug entirely. Having the pup in the hospital with IV fluids and antibiotics is an entirely appropriate course of action, so so far so good. This is what you'd do for any unresponsive GI disease of the symptom set you've described, be it cuased by giardia, parvo, HGE, what have you. As far as prognosis is concerned, that's a little harder to say... it partly depends on if there's concurrent disease. As an example, if I have a parvo case that also has worms, they have a harder time with it. So if it's strictly giardia and nothing else, that improves the odds some, although it is (unfortunately) possible to have enough damage from giardia that the intestine develops some changes that prevent perfect absorption of food. Depending on how much injury there is, this may be negligible or it may be more serious and cause the animal to be a "poor doer" (or "hard keeper", if you prefer). That isn't a disaster in most cases, but it may mean you need to do special feeding. In rare cases (at least rare up here) you can have fatalities. I'm sorry to say that and I don't mean to worry you, but it's not helpful to misrepresent the situation. Hopefully your vet has warned you that giardia is transmissable to people and other animals and birds. Normal hygiene will usually prevent transmission (it's a fecal-oral, but since giardia can form an encysted stage, it can survive for several weeks at least in ground water, which may be where your pup got it.) It is also possible to have the pup re-infest from contamination at YOUR house, since giardia has been passed in the stool probably since you got him (although possibly not until the symptoms appeared.) There is a giardia vaccine that can be given to help decrease this re-infestation (I've used it to good effect in a kennel that had a recurrent giardia in its hunting labradors); however, I'd have to agree with others that I wouldn't give vaccine to a sick puppy. Even if he wasn't evidently ill enough to skip vaccine when you first took him in to the vet, he certainly is NOW, so you'd want to wait on that. They do need to be giardia-free for the vaccine to do what it's meant to. As far as the breeder... this is just my personal opinion, not my professional one, but my thought is that if I had giardia in my kennel and didn't know it, I'd be grateful if an owner called me and told me the pup was carrying it. The incubation for giardia is usually around 8 days in dogs, but can range from 3 to 12; given that the puppy was showing signs (if I've read your posts right) in under 72 hours, I'd say he was exposed before you got him. That doesn't in itself mean the breeder was negligent; giardia, as I said, is EVERYWHERE. Infestations can occur without anyone being at fault; an infested bird can fly overhead and crap in the water source (or even on the ground, puppies will eat practically anything) and that can infest the pup - even a single pup, with the rest of the litter healthy. So just having giardia turn up does not constitute negligence. How the breeder handled it since then may be a different story. Anyway, good luck with this and I'll keep my fingers crossed for your pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby-at-home Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 is GIARDIA also called " Beaver Fever" in humans? I've heard that all of our mountain streams here in the Cascade mountains have that parasite, so we aren't supposed to drink that water. Can dogs get it from drinking in wilderness streams like people can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yes to both - it is called Beaver Fever, and it can be gotten by dogs (and other mammals and birds) who ingest contaminated water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Just thought I'd share my story. I brought my 12 week old pup home (this was almost 4 years ago mind) and she started having massive diarrhea and she quit eating. I questioned the vet and he said it was change of food. Couple of days later she was no better and was so weak she was having trouble standing. Back to vet who finally saw the parasite on a fecal test. Treated with liquid metronidazole. Got better. Then I came down with it, even though I was soooo careful about bleaching everything when cleaning up after her. Those were the most miserable 2 weeks of my life. I had to crawl to the kitchen one morning because I was so dehydrated. I know, should have gone to the hospital but I was taking summer classes and didnt want to miss. Stupid me. Anyway, Carlie now suffers from periodic bouts of severe diarrhea with no discernable cause. Her vet is speculating that the giardia never completely went away or that it did damage to her GI tract. Metronidazole no longer works. We just support her through it (give Sub Q fluids at home) and in 2-3 days she is better. I guess the moral of the story is that the sooner you treat the better off you are and to be careful! I am not kidding, the worst 2 weeks of my life. Olivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Now I remember when she had Giardia, my boyfriend also got really sick. I never thought dog's could give humans diseases... I guess that was it. I didn't get it because I am not a big kisser with doggies. Good luck with your pup hope he will feel better very soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaileysMom Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Ah-Panacur is what my vet gave Bailey. I gave the dosage 2 times, weeks apart from each other. This cleared up the problem after the last dose. I had forgotten the name until AKC Doc posted. And like it was stated, would also clear up any worms present, even if stool sample was negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenore Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Hi thanks for all your info.. now im worried my family will be deathly ill from this as well.. we have been washing our hands and i have mopped and mopped the floors and washed all things involved. we do have 2 other dogs in teh house that we are treating with meds to protect them. Unforuntaly the pup died last nite called the breeder and 2 other pups are now sick as well. vet still isnt postive on if this is what got to him .. thinking that there is an underlying health issue as well? Guess this isnt a good sitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Lenore, I am so sorry to hear about the loss of the poor little pup. Did your vet suggest doing a necropsy to see if he could figure out what really happened (n case it was something other than giardia)? It could help the owners of the other pups to avoid the same heartbreak that you, and especially your son, must be going through. Again, I'm so sorry to hear that the pup didn't make it. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenore Posted January 7, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Yes the vet is checking into it all and is suppose to call us back later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan's Mom Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Lenore, So sorry to hear about your puppy. I've been thinking about him for the past two days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaileysMom Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 I'm so sorry to hear about your family's loss. It definitely sounds as though there is a major problem with these pups-more than giardia. Was parvo ruled out? Thinking of you and your family, again sorry about the loss of your puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 INU If your boyfriend got giardia it is unlikely that he would have gotten over it without medical help. Plus it is shed in the feces so not getting puppy kisses would not have helped. Lenore, I am so sorry to hear about your pup. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. Olivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Lenore, I'm very sorry to hear about your puppy. That's just hearbreaking. I'm glad you're pursuing a post-mortem, and sorry to hear that the other pups are getting sick; maybe the tragic outcome for you and your family will help save some of those lives. The incubation on giardia in people, if I recall correctly, is 2 to 16 days. A friend of mine who got it once (from a stream, not his dog, who did NOT get it) said that he had a miserable time - UNTIL he went to the doctor and got treatment. I think part of the take-home message here is that if you see symptoms, see a doctor. I believe Olivia mentioned that she was so dedicated to her education when she got it that she didn't seek help right away; certainly my friend could have saved himself some trouble if he hadn't been being all macho about it. So, pick up places where the puppy defecated, bleach where appropriate (though bear in mind you can't sterilise the world), and if something shows up symptomatically, see your doc. I'll be thinking of you and your son. Take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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