When does the emotional roller coaster even out?

[erikor]

Next question from this first time BC owner:

Our Darcy is 6 months old.  In responding to my prior post, @rigby kindly pointed out that we are "at a challenging time...it will get easier".

When will that be, exactly ? One minute Darcy is bringing back a frisbee, circling around, and chasing after the next throw as if he was a trained dog. The next minute he is getting nippy with one of the children or completely ignoring me. Right at the moment he is sleeping near my feet as I work as if we were on the set of The Crown.

From all I have read these are still very early days and we are doing about as well as one can hope for. But I am curious what the future looks like. With diligent training, when might I expect Darcy to, I don't know, have reliable recall and not pull on the leash and be generally trusted not to chew up the carpet when I am not looking? 1 year of age? 2 years of age? Or is it sort of a life long journey of three steps forward, two steps back?

A big thank you to this great community for the support!

[D'Elle]

This is not possible, really, for us to predict, because every dog is different, and a lot also depends on circumstances, training, and so on. My best advice is to live with your dog, work with and train and play with and love your dog as your dog is right now and appreciate who he is, as this time will pass quickly. 

One of the most important things I have learned in my years with dogs and all the foster dogs I have had and trained is this:

Don't be ambitious for your dog. And don't set a schedule you expect him to follow.

If you are looking to the future and expecting a certain thing by a certain time you will be disappointed or think you have done something wrong if that milepost is not reached as you set it. But all dogs are different, all owners are different. Setting those expectations is not productive to you or to your dog. Do your best with him, do your training, and wait and see.

PS.....don't let him get nippy with the children! Make sure you watch his body language and call a halt to the play when he starts to get tired, and before he reaches the point of feeling he has to get nippy. Nipping at a person is never, ever to be allowed, and in this case is probably happening because he gets over stimulated by playing for too long at a stretch. Make the play sessions shorter. Again, stop when he still wants more, not after he gets to behaving badly.

And it is not always two steps forward, three back. That's a puppy thing, and he'll be a puppy for a while yet. An adult dog who is well trained doesn't usually go backward.

[erikor]

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This is not possible, really, for us to predict, because every dog is different, and a lot also depends on circumstances

I was afraid you were going to say that =)

No, seriously, lots of wisdom there. Thank you!

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PS.....don't let him get nippy with the children! 

Yes...we don't tolerate mouth-on-humans. We actually were having a problem with aggression a few weeks ago--teeth bearing, growling, the whole nine yards. We have made a number of adjustments and interventions and it is way, way better. No growling, no teeth bearing, but he will still occasionally go for a nip--and I agree it seems to be when he is over-stimulated by one of my children who are less skilled at reading him. (Although I want to be able to trust him around strangers whether they are good at reading him or not). When he does nip he gets a stern "no!" and we have all the children trained to make him sit and lie down at that point. The behavior is rapidly going away, but we have an appointment with a behavioralist next month to make sure we are doing everything we should.

 

[Lawgirl]

I would say that six months old is right in the middle of the dreaded teenager time, when a BC's brain is the victim to floods of hormones, and some days their brain falls out and it feels like they have forgotten everything they have ever learned!  This too will pass, and one day you will wake up and realise that you have an adult dog.  It may be at a year old, or 18 months or 2 years, but it will happen.  Some dogs will always be a little puppyish, others will be adult very early.

I completely second to enjoy the dog you have now, and do not burden them with expectations, but let them learn and grow at their pace.  They will get where they are going faster that way.   And don't be surprised if at some point you have to go back to scratch with something you thought he already knew (recall is renowned for this!). 

We don't mean not to challenge him to learn new things, just don't have a timetable as to when he should have them down.  BCs love to be challenged with something new to learn, to work their brains.

 

 

[CptJack]

As with everyone else, certainly 6 months is almost the WORST period.  As for it evening out, again with the others.  One of my dog was very good by 2.  The other one is just coming into being a super solid dog... at 6 years old.   I have always enjoyed her but she's taken a while to mature.

[GentleLake]

On 10/21/2020 at 1:20 PM, erikor said:

...Darcy is bringing back a frisbee...

Again, a caution against playing Frisbee or any other form of fetch with puppies unless it's very brief and very low key. And if you're playing Frisbee there should be no tosses that will require him to jump up to catch it. Their bones are still forming and intense back and forth running isn't good for their developing bodies; you can end up with some serious ortho issues down the road.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming . . .

[puppytoes]

Hi,

As a parent of 3 kids under the age of 11 and the owner of a 6 month old border collie puppy, I hear you on how hard it can be. This is my first puppy while also a parent and it is soooo much harder than training a pup without kids. The small humans are such a nuisance when it comes to dog training. 

I try to think of all the situations from the dogs perspective. The adult humans and child humans act so very differently that I think it can be confusing to the pup. We expect them to treat the small humans like adults even though they do not act like adults at all. While I try to have expectations of the pup, I also have expectations of the kids and if the kids cannot follow, they lose certain privileges.

My 6 year old loves to hug Wisk. While he didn't mind being carried around and hugged when he was very little, he doesn't enjoy it now. He had gotten past the puppy bitey stage but when I see her hugging him, I tell her she can't be around him anymore (for a while) because she's not making good choices.

The energy of kids can be very stimulating for a sensitive dog. I find that when my kids start getting hyper, he does too. I find it useful to send them to a different part of the house to play and I stay with the pup to help him settle (this may be more difficult if your kids are very young).

As for how long it will all take, it's like with children; when you're in a difficult stage it seems like it lasts forever but once they're sleeping through the night or are out of diapers, it is in the rear view mirror really fast. Hang in there.

[erikor]

Yes, and I have been surprised how little child expertise translates to puppies. I am a pediatrician with 5 kids, for goodness sake. But the rate of development and the difference in trajectory of physical vs. mental development are just too different. Also the teeth. It's back to square one from an expertise and wisdom stand point. Thank goodness for this forum, Suzanne Clothier, Leslie McDevitt, Karen Overall, and our behavioralist.

Thank you for the perspective!

-Eric

[urge to herd]

1 hour ago, erikor said:

                                                                                                                      Also the teeth.

This part of your comment made me laugh out loud, erikor! Never raised a human child and have only been around only a few puppies, but I can empathize. Those needles that puppies have for teeth are PAINFUL!.

I'd speculate that house training a puppy is a quicker and easier process than potty training a human infant. That might be a light in the tunnel for you.

Ruth & Gibbs

[GentleLake]

On 11/24/2020 at 9:30 AM, erikor said:

...I have been surprised how little child expertise translates to puppies...

Interesting you say that. I have no kids (though a sizable number of nieces and nephews and a pretty good deal of child care experience) and I think it translates exceptionally well to puppies. I often find myself referring to people's experience with small children when they're having trouble relating to or understanding their puppies' behavior. And IME it usually tends to click.

I think for a lot of people it helps them remember that they're dealing with babies and toddlers. Maybe it's because they either grow up so much more quickly and therefore the stages they go through also happen more quickly. Or maybe it's just that because it's a different species that they having trouble relating to them in those terms?

But yeah, you'll often find us making the connection between puppy and human children's behavior. And not just toddlers. Adolescents too.

[erikor]

Yes, I think for me the strategies I would use for an infant don’t work because Darcy can run and jump and the strategies I would use for a child don’t work because Darcy has a baby’s impulse control and understands very little language. I think for the most part I expect too much because he looks like a dog but is in fact just a puppy. 

Anyway, it is humbling. And that is never a bad thing. 

[gcv-border]

I second Gentle Lake's warning about frisbee play if it involves jumping for the frisbee. Ground rollers are OK at this age, but jumping for the frisbee should wait until about a year old. (Any type of repetitive jumping should not be engaged in at this age.) Moderation for the number of ground rollers should also be practiced.

As another poster said, a 6+/- month pup is roughly equivalent to a teenager. The general advice is to go back to foundation training and be consistent when the pup seems to forget previous training.

[maeflower]

Boy can I relate! Rylie will be 6 months old Saturday and teenager yes! He is so good with certain things and a nightmare with others. We have no problems going out and leaving him in his small xpen and crate in our den, but for the life of me can't get him to stop playing/chewing/attacking my feet while I'm sitting! He does his obedience commands very well and knows "leave it" most of the time but then there goes the bacon off the counter! It's all part of the process and every dog is different. Rylie is our 3rd bc and we've also gone through the puppy days with 2 golden retrievers (talk about chewers!!). Patience and enjoy these puppy days as they will be gone and you'll wonder where those antics went!