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Peeing indoors while we're out...

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Hi everyone, not posted for a while...

Getting a bit stuck. Jax is 19 months old and has been toilet trained for a long time, but quite frequently we've had issues with him treating the kitchen as a toilet while we're out during the day and it's starting to really wind my partner up to the point its causing arguments.

Ive typically put it  down to separation anxiety. He isn't neutered as our vet said he was a nervous dog so that might make things worse. I've never been 100% convinced. He suggested CBD oil but that's really expensive, he's had it though, and zylkene, and it seems to help to an extent but then after a time we end up back at square one. Occasionally he'll do it when we're in the living room as well  but not speaking to him, but that's only extremely rare. The last few days I've noticed him start going after cars again occasionally as well when walking. 

He gets two walks a day rain or shine and on days we work a bit later someone always comes in to walk him to break the day. 

I'm really stuck here everyone so any pearls of wisdom would be very much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

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Is he breaking house training on the days he gets a break? If not, it may just be that it's too long a day for him.

If it is anxiety related and CBD or the calming supplement helped, then maybe he needs to be on it all the time.

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It seems to be every day at the moment which is why it's getting so bad. He's never been off the supplements; he's on hemp oil rather than CBD at the minute though so not sure it's having the same effect?

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Perhaps he needs to be confined in a smaller space, say a crate or an ex-pen. Dogs by their nature don't tend to want to soil their spaces, so treating him like a puppy may be the way to go.

Has he had a vet workup to see if there's something medical going on?

Hemp oil is not CBD oil and won't have the same effects. CBD is concentrated from the whole seed oil, which contains it in trace amounts. The process of isolating the CBD is why it's more expensive, and more effective.

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The first thing I would  do is get a medical workup to rule out a urinary tract issue. If that is not the cause I would try shutting him out of the kitchen if that is where he always pees. If it has become a habit, then making it impossible for him to get to the place where he has been peeing might break that habit. Don't allow him into the kitchen at all for a period of time, even when you are home, and make sure you clean up the area he has been using with super-good enzymatic cleaners to get rid of the smell. Just ordinary cleaners won't do it. Get a black light flashlight and look at the area with it to make sure you get it all.

If he just goes and pees elsewhere, then I would crate him.  Hemp oil is not the same as CBD and is unlikely to be helpful, although there can always be an exception I suppose.  If it were my dog I would be working to change the behavior before I started giving any kind of drugs to the dog, even mild and "natural" things.

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You say you've talked to your vet, but has he been checked for a bladder infection?  Those are less common in young males than in females, but certainly not unheard of.   My senior bitch recently started needing to go outside like three times per night, and after a couple more or less sleepless nights for both of us, it was off to the vet.   One day on Clavamox, and poof!, she's clearly feeling soooo much more comfortable, and able to control her bladder for much longer.   If your vet hasn't already ruled that out, you should definitely consider treating for a possible infection.

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Is he urinating small amounts or large?  Lifting his leg and hitting the same spot or squatting and peeing on a throw rug?  Regardless, catch his first pee of the day and get it checked.  I had problems with both my dogs and really had a dilemma figuring out whether it was behavioral or medical.  Turned out it was medical.

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9 hours ago, Hooper2 said:

...you should definitely consider treating for a possible infection.

People will have their own opinions on whether or not to medicate for just the possibility of an infection. Antibiotic resistance is becoming a more serious problem all the time and antibiotics can wreak havoc on intestinal flora. Plus the wrong antibiotic may have no effect even if there is an infection of some sort. I never accept antibiotics for myself or my dogs unless I have a confirmed Dx to be treating with an appropriate antibiotic.

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23 hours ago, GentleLake said:

People will have their own opinions on whether or not to medicate for just the possibility of an infection. Antibiotic resistance is becoming a more serious problem all the time and antibiotics can wreak havoc on intestinal flora. Plus the wrong antibiotic may have no effect even if there is an infection of some sort. I never accept antibiotics for myself or my dogs unless I have a confirmed Dx to be treating with an appropriate antibiotic.

Gentle Lake is correct, here. It is highly inadvisable to treat for "a possible infection".

 You need first to have the test done and cultured to see exactly what the bacteria is that is causing the problem if in fact there is an infection. Antibiotics are not one size fits all and if you don't know what you are treating you can't treat it properly. Considering that a UTI can descend to the kidneys and cause permanent damage, it is not something to mess around with or to treat without investigation. first, find out if your dog has one, then if so use the right medication to treat it.

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Hi everyone. Sorry for the (extremely) slow response. As usual with Jax we saw bit of an improvement but here we are again...

So we've solved the peeing indoors while we're out, we've now got a problem while we're in. Needless to say the Mrs is at her wits end but I think there's more to it. He tells us when he needs the toilet without fail no matter how frequent so I know its something else.

I'm going to try the vets but I'm confident its something else. He seems to just shuffle off in to the kitchen a few seconds after you divert your attention away to him and we end up with a wet dustbin, fridge, table and/or tumble dryer and a wasted evening of arguing. Always in the kitchen; never elsewhere in the house. It getting to be daily now.

I'm really struggling now. I can't give him 100% attention 100% of the time as I don't think anyone can. But it seems at the first sign of me or whoever else (moreso me) redirecting attention then that's it. 

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Could it be that he has learned it is a way to get your attention? Have you tried using puzzle toys to keep him occupied while you aren’t able to focus on him?
I’ve found puzzle toys to help a great deal. My dog’s favorites are the twist and treat, orbee snoop, and lickimat wobble. I also use frozen stuffed Kong’s frequently.

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17 hours ago, CH0602 said:

Hi everyone. Sorry for the (extremely) slow response. As usual with Jax we saw bit of an improvement but here we are again...

So we've solved the peeing indoors while we're out, we've now got a problem while we're in. Needless to say the Mrs is at her wits end but I think there's more to it. He tells us when he needs the toilet without fail no matter how frequent so I know its something else.

I'm going to try the vets but I'm confident its something else. He seems to just shuffle off in to the kitchen a few seconds after you divert your attention away to him and we end up with a wet dustbin, fridge, table and/or tumble dryer and a wasted evening of arguing. Always in the kitchen; never elsewhere in the house. It getting to be daily now.

I'm really struggling now. I can't give him 100% attention 100% of the time as I don't think anyone can. But it seems at the first sign of me or whoever else (moreso me) redirecting attention then that's it. 

How are you sure he tells you every time he needs the toilet, and that this is something else? Is there a chance he is telling you he needs to go out and you don't notice? Just wondering.

Have you had him seen by a vet and checked for infection or other issues lately?

Have you cleaned the area where he goes with super good cleaners and made sure all traces of urine are gone?

My best recommendation is that if he is only doing this in the kitchen, then block off the kitchen and do not allow him to go in there. Find creative ways of doing this so that you can still come and go but he cannot. It may be inconvenient for a few weeks until you break the habit, but the alternative (letting it go on) is worse.

It is most important that you prevent his going into that area, because if you don't he will not stop doing this as it has now become a habit and even if you clean it up it is still smelling to him like his potty area. You have to use enzymatic cleaners  that are designed for this purpose, and then use a black light to make sure you get it all. Just wiping it up or using ordinary kitchen cleaners won't do it because he will still smell his urine there and it will trigger him to go there again. So clean the area properly and then don't permit him into the kitchen again.

 

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I had a couple of dogs do something very similar.  They had never peed inside for years and then suddenly they couldn't seem to hold it anymore.  Turned out it was probably the dog food.  I lost those two, the vets could never nail anything down for me.  Then I had my next three dogs do the same thing, lost one of them.  The only connection was the food, two of them weren't even the same breed.  I was feeding Orijen.  Changed the food and the problem went away.  Later lost one to heart and kidney failure.  I won't feed anything with peas, lentils or potatoes no matter how "good" everyone claims it is. 

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