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hey guys. I'm new here and was just curious if I bought a mutt or what. the guy said she was pure bc. but I had my doubts especially when he showed me pictures. at first I was told she was daughter of b/w border mom and dad. but then I saw pictures on facebook.  the mother was smooth coat  black and tan dog, so if she was border she was the rare old old breed that apparently isn't seen around anymore (black and tan barely any white, or so I read on the border collie breed page everytime I google what color they can be) I can't put a finger on what breed the mom is. dad was bc. for sure.  but the breeder lied about the mom.   my puppy is 6 months and 2 days. very hyper barely listens and food aggressive. does herd naturally, loves to go and chase horses from behind. Loves our baby and everyone she meets, and does excited/submissive pee.  I have raised her just like our current border collie who literally  is the best dog ever, as I am told by everyone I meet, since i work with dogs. he has an off switch like no other, but new puppy is just not into learning or anything. any ideas of what breed she is?. I am pretty sure not Notolian shep. not great pyr. and not lab...maybe catahoula leopard? (I saw a brown and tan pup once so i thought maybe?)     I'm not sure at this point.   here are pics of what i believe to be the mom (after the breeder said  xyz and I looked farther into his facebook and saw the real mom) this pic is the truth, the mom is the one feeding the pups (which he said was the surrogate..the white one is mine..sorry it is horrible quality. there are also pics of her growing up.  thank you for all your help. (she never did the crazy border collie ear transformation from day to day like Parker :(  sorry the pictures are sideways, idk why they are that way.) the breeder ghosted me so I can't contact gum for the truth, I even  asked if she was mixed so I could feed the correct food for her size and he insisted she was pure. sorry for the overload! Thank you so much in advance.  forgot to add that in the pic you can see he says these are the parents and farther down in another pic someone asks who the parents are and he pictures a completely different dog

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I'm no expert on breeding, but she doesn't look like a BC to me (though she is VERY cute!). Have you considered doing Wisdom Panel (doggie DNA test)?

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5 minutes ago, jfaircloth said:

I'm no expert on breeding, but she doesn't look like a BC to me (though she is VERY cute!). Have you considered doing Wisdom Panel (doggie DNA test)?

yes..but I have heard they aren't always accurate, so scared to throw money at that. the dad is a border I know for sure, cause that's the one thing he kept the same in his story and then i confirmed by facebook creeping. unless he is not one either....

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Parker, I believe that pups in the same litter can have different fathers, hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me will correct me if wrong.

If that's true, your pup could be a half-sibling of the other pups in that litter. I've no idea what breed she might be.

One more thing, you said she 'likes to chase the horses'. Please don't allow her to do this. She could get killed or injured badly, or a horse could get hurt badly. At the minimum, it's a really, really bad habit to allow in any dog. I live in a county where livestock owners can legally shoot dogs seen harassing livestock. If ownership of the dog can be determined, the owner is liable for damages to stock. It's very, very dangerous 'fun' for your dog.

Ruth & Gibbs

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Ruth and Gibbs

yea I wondered about that, but the only males he has on his property are the 2 pictured borders and one blue heeler who was neutered.  she only chases my horses while in the roundpen doing work, always supervised, one time she did see my horse head towards the gate and stopped her and made her turn around. she doesnt just run away and chase. thank you. 

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Not enough detail in the picture of the mother, but her markings look like many English shepherds I've seen. But they don't come w/ smooth coats that I'm aware of.

I've read that males can smell bitches in heat from a mile away so no guarantee that the border collie sired all the pups unless the bitch was kept under close guard.

Pretty hard, if not impossible, to know what a 6 month old pup will look like when mature. I adopted a 6 month old who looked very much like a border collie pup except for wonky ears. By the time she was grown it was very obvious that she has a good dose of a sighthound breed in her.

Standing next to your other dog, the pup looks pretty big. Although border collies do vary in size, I suspect he's going to be much larger than Parker when he's done growing.

Not all border collies go through the wonky ears stage. I had one whose ears went full prick on the day she was 7 weeks old and never budged a bit after that.

Sorry, not much help, but some things to consider. Oh, and welcome to the Boards.

 

 

 

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I'm thinking that the far right is mom and maybe the one in the middle is dad and the breeder is just a garbage of a human being that lies to people. but I personally see some bc in her..at least herding wise, that's about it.  so that would make her a transylvanian hound so.ething mix..I think

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greetings ad welcome to the BC Boards. She's a cute dog, whatever she is and if you love her it doesn't matter except, as you say, for curiosity.

Just a word on the chasing horses. Even in a round pen it is very dangerous. The horses and dog could both get hurt just as easily, perhaps even more so since there's no exit for either one to take. I also feel that allowing a dog to chase horses (as opposed to being properly trained to move livestock correctly, which doesn't involve actual chasing) is not kind to the animals being chased. JMO, and I am not trying to come down on you or criticize, just to give you a perspective that you may not have considered.  I might also mention that chasing is a predatory behavior seen in most dogs, and really has nothing to do with actual stock work or herding of livestock, so the fact that she wants to chase is not indicative of her being part border collie.

In any case, welcome and we are here to help and answer questions if we can. 

 

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she always stays on the outside and switches going left and right with Parker. I miss wrote when I put chases.  she just goes in circles on the outside and changes direction when the horses do. I am all about safety with my pets.:) 

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Of those three only the one on the left looks to be a border collie. I have no idea what the other 2 are. They actually look a bit like some of the Australian huntaway dogs, but there aren't a lot of them around the US that I know of and the facial markings these 2 share don't show up a out in the pics of the huntaways I've seen. The facial markings aren't like most Catahoula leopards I've seen or seen pics of either. I have no idea what they are and I'd be inclined to guess mixes, perhaps related.

The pictures of the litters that you've posted and I saw on his website (yeah, I nosed around a bit too) Have mostly puppies marked like border collies, but that Irish spotting seems pretty easily passed. It shows up in a lot of breeds. So, absent the possibility that it was a multi-sired litter and that the sire's the one on pictured on the car, I'd guess the pups are at least half border collie.

I wouldn't allow a dog to run circles around horse in a pen either. I know some people do it as preliminary training but I've never been a fan of the method, preferring to allow the dogs actual access to the stock.

I also don't think it's good for the horse to be run like this. Don't think it would do much to habituate a horse to dogs, at least not in a good way.

 

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everyone seems to be confused about the horse situation.  no one is in danger. horses are not being chased, I obviously worded it wrong. so please ignore that statement.  

On 11/6/2018 at 12:35 PM, D'Elle said:

greetings ad welcome to the BC Boards. She's a cute dog, whatever she is and if you love her it doesn't matter except, as you say, for curiosity.

Just a word on the chasing horses. Even in a round pen it is very dangerous. The horses and dog could both get hurt just as easily, perhaps even more so since there's no exit for either one to take. I also feel that allowing a dog to chase horses (as opposed to being properly trained to move livestock correctly, which doesn't involve actual chasing) is not kind to the animals being chased. JMO, and I am not trying to come down on you or criticize, just to give you a perspective that you may not have considered.  I might also mention that chasing is a predatory behavior seen in most dogs, and really has nothing to do with actual stock work or herding of livestock, so the fact that she wants to chase is not indicative of her being part border collie.

In any case, welcome and we are here to help and answer questions if we can. 

 

 

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