Anyone for Rally?

[SoloRiver]

Solo and I have started Rally obedience classes. It's been too long since we've taken classes together and since he's been diagnosed with severe arthritis in his right hip, we are unfortunately done with agility training. Solo LOVES agility. He loves to train, he requires no extrinsic motivators (I know, that's supposed to be a bad thing, but it's true), and remains very focused when training in agility. In agility he's pretty much always been point and shoot.

 

Rally seems to be a different story. In short, Solo appears to think that Rally is terribly boring. And I kind of can't blame him, but I think it could be a fun thing to mess around with and I also believe that if I do things the right way I could change his mind.

 

I know the basic rules (i.e., if Solo seems uninterested I need to be more interesting, etc.) but at the same time I've never experienced this before. I have never, ever had to do anything to keep Solo "up" and motivated through any kind of class, with the exception of the competition obedience class we went to two sessions of before quitting because, um, Solo thought it was boring so we decided to do agility instead.

 

Does anyone have any tricks to share with me? Other than "be way more animated" and "bring liverwurst" I'm sort of at a loss.

 

Please tell me that Rally gets fun. I doubt we'll compete (all the Rally around here is ACK for some reason -- there is supposedly no APDT available) so we're just doing it for kicks and socialization.

[KrisK]

Hi Melanie,

 

Jazz hated obedience too but when we did some Rally work, he was a totally different dog. He did enjoy it, I think because I was more relaxed and enjoying it too. I spent a lot of time laughing while trying to get my footwork right and I think Jazz picked up on the 'less serious' nature.

Anyway, have you considered tracking? What's great about tracking is the dog gets to direct the work. Jazz LOVES to track and it's something you don't need a lot of training or equipment to do. I took about 2 1/2 hours of instruction over a weekend and learned enough to set tracks and just have some fun with it. Even with Solo's arthritis, he should have no trouble working a track. Just a thought.

[Journey]

Agility in itself is self reinforceing for the dog and then the handler because they "think" the dog is having fun. So, for Rally I suggest you stay more mentally "connected" to him. If you get distracted, he will, if you allow outside distractions to get into your thoughts you've basically disconnected from him. It's more than "tuning" out the environment, it mentally staying in tune with your dog as well. I can't tell you any "tricks" per se but the mental connection is key. If you are just playing around, then relax, mix it up, challenge him more. Raise the "bar" and play more, intermingle tug and work. I've never done Rally but all it is, from a strong competition obedience background, is doodling.

 

Karen

[Bordercentrics]

Solo probably loved the speed at which he could do agility, and therefore Rally is SLOOOW to him. Obedience trainers on the other hand, find that Rally is more fun, but they have trouble with the fact that you can give multiple commands and talk to your dog all the way through the course. My dogs love it when I talk to them, and have enjoyed agility because of it. Besides talking and making yourself interesting because YOU act like you are having fun, you can also speed up for the course. This means that you have to actually run when you get to the "Fast" sign, but I found with my active, high drive girl that keeping up a good speed throughout the course makes a lot of difference. I'll bet you are walking the course. Zip along and Solo will like it better.

 

Kathy Robbins

[Root Beer]

I LOVE Rally and so does Speedy. Sammie likes it. Maddie gets bored by it.

 

I competed with Maddie once. She LOVED being at the trial. She loved visiting with people. She loved going with me to the food area to get lunch. She loved playing on the agility jump at the other end of the building. She loved sitting around watching the other dogs go by.

 

She was bored silly in the ring. She settled down nicely in the middle of a Sit-Down-Sit (APDT sign). She wanted to take a nap!! I lost about 9 points on that exercise because I had to tell her to sit from the down three times!!!

 

But Maddie gets bored in agility class, too, so I'm not surprised that she's not impressed with Rally!!

 

Anyway, to make it more fun, you could try moving faster. If you're not going to compete, who cares if you go fast when it's not a fast sign? You could change up you pace at any time while heeling to get Solo's attention.

 

If Solo is toy motivated and it won't be disruptive to any dogs in the class, you could incorporate toy play into your courses somehow.

 

I also change up the food I am working with and I use lots of it.

 

When training at home, I play games with the fronts and finishes. I'll move back quickly to call the dog to front and reward if the sit is fast. Then I'll cue a finish and reward big when the dog comes to heel.

[Genie]

I teach a rally class. What I've found is that the dogs adapt to it much faster than the people. A dog can easily get bored or confused, trying to pick up cues from their handler while the handler is struggling to learn how to perform the sign.

If Solo is bored with it, I would suggest studying the signs, then practicing them first without him so that you're familiar with the footwork. Once you know it and can negotiate a coarse swiftly and easily, try taking Solo through. You may see a difference in his attitude.

[dsm]

If you keep up with rally and are up for a bit of a drive, it looks like there will be an APDT rally trial May 11 in Santa Barbara. I can confirm the date when it becomes official. We've had two trials in the past, and the atmosphere has been pretty fun.

 

Diane

[airbear]

Hi Melanie,

 

I echo what Genie posted. Rally can be boring for the dog if you have to stop and read the signs, and then try and figure out if there is supposed to be a front, then finish, or a front, then move to heel and go to the next station, etc. I try to walk the course a few times so that I only need a cursory glance at the signs.

 

Bear has always found obedience exciting, more than agility, even. He thinks heeling is cool - what can I say, he is a weird dog. Since you get bonus points for 'happy' in CARO-style rally, I talk to him a LOT, telling him what station is coming up, lots of praise, etc. Yes, you feel a little silly at first but hey, talking to your dog while heeling can't be any stupider than the weavepole dance I used to do to get him through the poles. Oh, and he gets to tug on his leash after we finish the course, much to the disapproving stares from our classmates (who come from traditional obedience backgrounds).

 

Lou just finished his first set of rally classes. Lou is happy when it's his turn out of the car, so motivation is not a problem. However, too much praise and chatter 'blows his mind' and his eyes start to glaze, so I try to be a little more low-key with him. He hasn't had any formal obedience training, but he picked up the exercises pretty quickly. He seems to like it, probably as much as he likes the other doggy sports that he's been subjected to. Course, he'd rather be working sheep.

[SoloRiver]

Hey guys -- thanks for the advice. I think I need to (a) work a lot more on heeling (since it is basically heeling all over the place with some other stuff thrown in) and ( get back to working with toys. I got really lazy about motivating toys in agility because Solo never really needed them. I'll have to get out the special tug.

[mobcmom]

I've put a Rally novice title in my sheltie/bc mix and am working towards a rally novice title with my bc puppy. One thing, it seems alot of people forget to do is talk to their dogs. It is challenging to read the signs and interact with the dog through the course, but I think it really helps keep the dogs intrested and excited about rally. They are having fun with their owners.

 

Mobcmom

[3dogslater]

We've done one trial and Sophie (Kelpie x Malamute) has her CARO Rally Novice and Rally Advanced titles, both earned MCL (average score 197 Novice, 199 Advanced).

 

If you can teach your dog a "happy" heel, you've got 80% of what you need. Sophie is like Bear - heeling is way cooler than agility. I think she likes obedience because she likes to be right and it's easier to be correct in obedience. That or maybe I have more time to do things right so she has fewer reasons to yell at me.

 

When I taught Rally O, owners who enjoyed obedience got a far better effort from their dogs than those who thought that Rally was Agility's stupid, boring cousin

 

Is there anything that Solo really likes? I've trained with raw chicken hearts for the Kelpie/Malamute mix to keep her focused. I've used cheese whiz on a stick, squeaky toys, rabbit fur pelts...whatever it took to keep her motivated.

 

Does Solo follow your body language fairly well in agility? You can shape a heel by rewarding him for following your movements on the flat and rewarding for closer and closer heelwork.

 

Do you dance? Put on music you like and focus less on the formal obedience of a heel, and more on moving with your dog as a partner. Go fast, then slow, keeping your average pace just below a jog - dogs tend to heel better at speed.

 

I teach the signs first, then put them together into short sequences. The owners need to know what they're doing before asking the dogs. If you're unsure, Solo will pick up on that. Some dogs take their owners hesitation as a reason to get goofy, or shut down, or offer behaviours.

 

To help with Rally, you may want to consider doing a few lessons with a trainer for traditional competitive obedience to work specifically on teaching him a motivational heel.

 

(Hi Bear, Wick and Lou! RDM finally found me a brindle BC )

[KrisK]

Hi again,

 

Last night I took my first official rally class. I wasn't working with Jazz (expecting him to get up at 7 am. stay cooped up somewhere until 7 pm for the class is not practical) so, I borrowed a dog.

I agree that you as the handler need to know what the action at the signs will be so the dog isn't confused. And, a 'perfect' heel isn't really needed. And, the faster you can go, the more fun the dog has. I borrowed a little Bichon who didn't know me at all. By the end of the class (one hour) he was so attentive to what we were doing that it was clear he was having a lot of fun.

The instructor (the CKC 2004 obedience champion) was very animated with her sheltie, praising and talking almost continually - totally different from her very 'official' obedience persona! Her requirement at the end of the first basic course was for us to run with the dog, clapping, cheering and generally making a huge fuss. All the dogs and handlers had a blast and most of the people are 'obedience' people.

[airbear]

Originally posted by 3dogslater:

(Hi Bear, Wick and Lou! RDM finally found me a brindle BC )

Hi! (waves at African Mastiff and Malapie). Can we see some pics of this brindle collie please? And name and other salient details?

[Root Beer]

Originally posted by airbear:

Lou is happy when it's his turn out of the car, so motivation is not a problem. However, too much praise and chatter 'blows his mind' and his eyes start to glaze, so I try to be a little more low-key with him.

I have to do the same with Speedy. If I go out there and I'm all "Speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! YAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY!!! GOOD BOOOOOOOOOOY!! Clap Clap Clap!!" he's going to start running in excited circles and lose his head.

 

In fact, Speedy does better when I keep my mouth shut for the most part and give quiet encouragement and necessary directions.

 

But that's particular to him. Most dogs do benefit from more chatter from the handler throughout the course.

[3dogslater]

OT - Zephyr (formerly Doc of the Seven Dwarfs) is the shoe chewing, peeing, paper shredding, not-coming-when-called puppy who has single-pawed stopped me from sleeping in.

 

Zephyr's thread:

http://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultima...2848;p=1#000000

[airbear]

Ah! Congratulations! I met some of those puppies in December - so very cute! So what do the incumbents think of the little scamp?

[3dogslater]

Belle hates everybody. Chester hates dogs who steal his toys. Sophie hates anybody that takes attention away from the spoiled princess.

 

It took Belle four months before she did anything but growl at Sophie. It only took her eight days to play with the puppy - proof she's going senile She still does nasty things like smacking him with a stuffie that he's not allowed to take but she likes him now. He worships her and that always helps.

 

Zephyr is still scared of Chester. Chester's idea of being sweet is a flying playbow with a big grin and play-growling - Zephyr is sure that BCx is a food group for the African Mastiff.

 

Sophie has discovered that she is faster and more agile and likes the puppy now because she always wins no matter what game they are playing. We'll see what happens when he grows up a little

 

If you'll be at Cliffhangers you'll get to meet him...