*Random* Agression & Barking

[ScxttMG]

Hello All,

 

Hope someone can shed some light for me on my issue with Lucy my gorgeous little BC.

 

We have had her since she was 6 weeks old, and as you will all probably know, the most loving, affectionate and playful dogs all in one. She is now 1 year and 4 months old and knows all the training words you can think of, listens 99.9% of the time, around other dogs rolls on her back and just wants to play.

 

She grew up from 6 weeks with my mother in laws dog, a small jack russell, they were the best of friends and played for hours with each other with no malice whatsoever.

 

Recently we returned from a 3 week holiday, (Lucy stayed at home with my mum) to the information that she is VISCOUSLY attacking my mother in laws dog on sight, to the point where she is in the RED ZONE and will not listen to any command, grabbing him by the neck.

 

How can she go from being so loving and playful with her best bud, to attacking on site?

 

Strangely enough, a recent visit to the Vet for a jab, she had the same reaction to dogs in the vets, saw red mist and viciously went for others dogs! this is totally out of character, and after a few minutes she turns back into the most loving dog and rolling around again!?

 

The only thing i can put it down to is, i think she may be coming into another season, this will be her 3rd, so i am wondering if she now 'knows' what it is and is reacting to it?

 

I can tell because her nipples are extremely hard, and her 'area' is puffing' which was 'her' tell tell signs.

 

Any advice, and information you can provide would be great, i have searched the forum and also on google, it points to a few things but nothing definitive.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[LauraV]

In dogs world, there is no random. They react based on triggers. It might be because she is coming into season, however, it is hard to tell without knowing what exactly triggered her. Was she going into heat each time? Was it big dogs, little dogs, both in the situations? Males, females? Did it all start at your mother-in-law's house? Your best bet is to have a certified behaviorist evaluate her to see what's going on. These situations are happening and need to be addressed. best of luck!

[ScxttMG]

Hi Laura

 

Thanks for the response.

 

Its only JUST started happening, it didnt happen in the first heat, nor second, but being the first and second she may have been confused.

 

Not sure on the sex of the dogs in the vets, i didn't stop to ask.

 

My mother in laws dog is small and male, she used to run around the house with him from a very young age, so to just attack him on site is extremely strange. No, it started at our house, when her dog came round as they were both going for a walk, as soon as our door opened she went for the mother in laws dog, they have been seperated since the second time she tried to scalp him.

 

The vet said something would have happened to her to trigger these moments, but we are not sure as we have been away on holiday, if she is inside our house looking outside the window and see's a dog outside she violently barks, not sure if this is jealousy or not.

 

Thank you.

[LauraV]

It always has a starting point. Doesn't matter when it started. But, now that it has, it needs to be addressed ASAP. my golden used to play with her doggy cousin. Now that they are older, they can't be in the same house. Is there a reason you haven't spayed her?

[ScxttMG]

That is why i am hoping it could be the fact she is coming into season again, as her fur is shedding again too.

 

No reason, just haven't decided if we should let her have pups, as some have stated, having a pregnancy then spading her is better than just spading first. Happy to ignore this advise if it is incorrect.

[Journey]

Please, do ignore that advise. However, it's best to have her spayed about 3 months post cycle. This way her hormones have returned to normal.

[ScxttMG]

Hi Journey

 

Thanks for your input, i presume only positives can come from having a dog spayed? i dont want my poor baby being in any pain

[GentleLake]

There are pros and cons to spaying and neutering. I posted a link in an earlier thread and I'll see if I can find it again when I get back home. Or you may be able to find it by doing a search here.

 

The thing about its being better for a dog to have a litter before being spayed is an old wives' tale. And your dog has demonstrated by this aggressive behavior that she should definitely not be bred. Temperament -- as well as proven working ability -- should be a primary consideration in deciding whether or not to breed. There are already too many poorly bred dogs of all kinds in the world. Please don't add to the problem with a dog who's already having behavioral issues. Should you choose to leave her intact, you should be unequivocally certain you can prevent an unwanted pregnancy so she doesn't pass this on should it be genetic.

 

As to cause, it's probably impossible to say, and ultimately in terms of dealing with the problem it doesn't matter. But sometimes things just happen without any clear trigger. I had a 10 month old male pup who suddenly became unpredictably aggressive with both some people and some dogs (including the 2 he grew up with in my home). And I have a lurcher who became suddenly reactive to other dogs at about 14-15 months old. Both were well socialized prior to the behavioral changes. The female was spayed (at 6 months by the rescue prior to my adopting her), the male was intact. No known reason for either dog's change in behavior.

[LauraV]

I've never heard anyone say it's safer to let her have a litter then spay her instead of just having her spayed without a litter...

[LauraV]

 

 

The thing about its being better for a dog to have a litter before being spayed is an old wives' tale. And your dog has demonstrated by this aggressive behavior that she should definitely not be bred. Temperament -- as well as proven working ability -- should be a primary consideration in deciding whether or not to breed. There are already too many poorly bred dogs of all kind in the world. Please don't add to the problem with a dog who's already having behavioral issues. Should you choose to leave her intact, you should be unequivocally certain you can prevent an unwanted pregnancy so she doesn't pass this on should it be genetic.

 

 

This.

[GentleLake]

OK, so here are some of the things I have bookmarked about spay/neuter.

 

It's important to read the pros and cons within the context of whether it's advisable to ever allow your dog to procreate. IMO, any dog that's exhibiting aggression should not ever be bred as there are too many risks that the propensity could be inherited. So unless you're 100% certain that you can prevent pregnancy, the risks of not spaying probably outweigh any small increase in health benefits from leaving the dog intact.

 

http://www.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_determining_best_age_to_spay_or_neuter?page=show#.UgGfGW3j9Lx

 

avmajournals.avma.org/doi/pdf/10.2460/javma.231.11.1665

 

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/health-risks-of-early-spay-neuter/

 

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/long-term-health-risks-benefits-spay-neuter-dogs/

 

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/spay-neuter-and-joint-disease/?inf_contact_key=0b504c1a0fe6c089b3ecf4530f3389d0a4f7b2bfbaababa80b876d14a40bf5f5

[ScxttMG]

Morning All

 

The 'aggression' has happened twice and only with dogs, HUMANS there is no such thing. The way people are talking is that it will be a lifelong issue, as mentioned i asked for advice if it could be to do with the sensitive time??

 

I took her out for a walk last night, and she interacted with about 8 different dogs, from tiny to large and she was as good as you could expect, no aggression, just happily playing! Hence the 'random' 'twice' It has not happened since.

[GentleLake]

It doesn't matter if it's only with dogs and not humans too. It's aggression.

 

And from what you described with "RED ZONE" and "saw red mist and viciously went for others dogs" (emphasis added), it also doesn't matter whether it's occasional or every time she sees another dog. She should not be bred.

 

I don't know what the dog laws are in Yorkshire, and they vary from location to location in the US, but here where I live a dog can be determined legally to be a dangerous dog if it attacks other dogs or other pets (i.e. not just humans), and can be seized by authorities and destroyed at their discretion. And people can get hurt when a dog attacks another dog, either when breaking up a fight or when the dog redirects onto the human.

[ScxttMG]

Redirect back to the QUESTION..

 

COULD it be caused by the pending SEASON that is due as she has NEVER shown signs of aggression PRIOR to this.

 

I have just been speaking with my vet again and also a local trainer and they are stating that female dogs/collies can have aggression spurts leading up to heat, especially towards males.

 

Went for other dogs... but was on a lead and caused 0% harm!

 

So can anyone actually answer my question, if it is related to her season............?

[CptJack]

To answer your question and only your question:

 

It is possible but unlikely that it is related to her coming into season. It is highly likely that it is related to her becoming socially (rather than sexually) mature. That happens somewhere around 3 years old, and it is something that will occur with more frequency as she continues to mature and becomes less tolerant and less puppylike in her social interactions, mental processes, and emotional state.

And, because I can't leave well enough alone let me say: It is normal for dogs not to like every other dog. It is NOT normal for them to respond with a desire to kill or seriously aggress toward another dog on sight. My own BC is highly intolerant of rude behavior and likes some dogs more than others. That's fine, but the normal reaction to this (and I can't believe I'm calling Molly normal at this stage) is to give warnings via things like trying to move away, growls, exposed teeth and a single air snap if the dog continues to get into her face/space. Attempting to attack is not normal at all and is a temperament issue. Attempting to attack ON SIGHT is way, way, not normal.

And again, at her age, it is HIGHLY likely that it is going to become worse over time and with maturity, not better.

[CptJack]

and in the (unlikely) event that it is related to her heat cycle it is also likely to become worse with future cycles as well as much worse with the sustained hormonal upheaval of pregnancy and whelping a litter.

[GentleLake]

So can anyone actually answer my question, if it is related to her season............?

 

There's really no neat answer to this, which is probably why no one addressed it initially.

 

The only way you'll really know is to observe her behavior through several heat cycles. If it recurs then and only then, then you have your answer.

 

If it is hormonal and she's OK with other dogs between heats, the easy way to deal with it is to have her spayed. She should not be bred prior to this spay, and if you choose to leave her intact she still should not be bred. The level of aggression she's displaying is not normal, even for a bitch in heat.

 

Aggression is aggression and leaving her intact knowing this leaves you open to potentially dangerous aggressive incidents occurring.

[Journey]

I'm going to differ with some..the *level* of aggressive reaction isn't something we can determine in words. What one sees' as horrible another can call no big deal. You have to know your dog! I've a bitch that's snarky as all, heaven help the male that comes into her bubble when she's starting to come in..she looks and acts as though she'll tear him up. She won't, it's self preservation. And most intact males bow out on the first few clacks..

[teresaserrano]

I've always had females and they never acted strangely when in seasoon... till Tess, my first bc. She was spayed after her 3rd cicle (I had it planned after her 2nd, but she had some health problems that prevented it). First two seasons she was fine, but 3rd, she was waaay over sensitive to everything in the environment, really stressed, and yes, a lot more reactive towards other dogs. About 2 months after her heat, she was back to normal. And then spayed.

 

She is still a real pain in the ass with some dogs, very quick to correct anything she perceives as disrespectfull, but she doesn't just out of the blue go into atack mode. She is always on leash with new dogs though, and only plays with other dogs if and when she knows them well enough and shows she is comfortable and likes them. I don't think of her as agressive at all, but many people would. I just know her very well and don't allow ocasions when her "I'm the queen and you just pissed me off" complex can act out.