weave training

[lovesbc's]

Just curious how each of you have taught weaving? I know different teachers teach different methods and was wondering what has worked best for you.

[Northof49]

I have used several methods - it really depends on the dog. I personally prefer the angled channel weaves, but I still go with whatever method makes sense to the dog.

 

I have used:

1. Luring the dog through the poles with treats

 

2. Angles channel weaves

 

3. Weaves with weave wires.

 

It really depends on what makes sense to the dog. For example my young BC and her littermate picked up the angle channel weaves just like a hot damn, and it didn't matter where they were in the building they would go out and do them. To their brother, however, this method made absolutely no sense at all. We lured him through the poles with treats and within 20 minutes he was doing 6 weave poles all by himself because it made sense to him.

 

Another thing to remember is that there are o "old fashioned" ways of teaching weave poles - just different ways of teaching them.

[Kat's Dogs]

I have used (or worked with someone who used) the following methods:

 

1) Luring

2) channel

3) wires

4) v-channel (aka - angled poles)

5) 2x2

6) a combo of some of these

 

1) About Luring - in my expirience, this way takes longer for the dog to "get it" because they are just following food - not really paying attention to the poles. Also, the dog depends on the handler for help - so it is more difficult to do distance work later.

 

2) Channel poles - great method! I did this with my Dazzle (as well as wires and angled poles). Right from the get-go the dog can "do" 12 poles on their own with the handler at a distance. You also get speed right from the start. I really like channels.

 

3) Wires. Some dogs get scared of them at first, but once the dog is going through them they are OK. With this method, the dog starts out a bit slower and gets speed later once the wires are off. Because dogs easily jump out (or crawl under) the wires it can be difficult to get perfect accuracy quickly. So not my favorite way.

 

4) V-channel weaves (or angled poles). I like this method as well. Another one that I did with Dazzle. The dog starts a little slower (unlike the channel ones) but you can get really nice enteries and great accuracy quickly with this method. The only thing I don't like about them, if the dog tries to go to fast through them, they jump over the poles like a rabbit rather than weaving.

 

5) 2x2 poles. I have never actually done this. It seems cool though. Unlike the channel poles where you can just start with 12, you just start with 2. I don't know much about it but from what I have seen, you can get really nice enteries/speed with this method.

 

6) Combos! this is what I did with Dazzle. I started her with channel weaves (with wires at first). After that I wanted to work her enteries - so I did the v-channel. I like mixing things up for the too - makes training fun and you can get the highlights of multiple methods. So that is MY favorite for any dog - just mix and match!

 

But like Northof49 - it depends on the dog big time. For my Shih tzu, plain old wires worked best for her, but for Dazzle (border collie) I used different things all together!

[Shetlander]

I think any of the methods can be successful if you believe in it and work consistently. I also believe some of it comes down to personal preference. One method I might love would be the one method someone else would least want to use. There is a woman at my club who trains by luring and her dogs have awesome weaves but luring would be my last choice.

 

I've used WAM's with very good success with my shelties. My current method of weave training is 2 x 2 which I like because it 1. is clicker based 2. teaches the dog from the start to find his entry totally independent of the handler and 3. encourages lots of drive, speed and frustration tolerance. Quinn is at the stage where we are moving to other sets of weaves and he's a little shaky on them at first. I like knowing I'm there for encouragement only and don't need to "make a gate" for him when he encounters these new weaves. I tried a challenging sequence yesterday where he comes over a jump at a very hard angle for off-side weaves. A friend of mine is having a heck of a time getting her fast dog with 3 years of experience to make that entry without lots of help. While Quinn had a few misses, he also had some fantastic successes with only 3 months of training. I credit the big emphasis the method puts on finding the entry.

[Kat's Dogs]

Nice Liz! 2x2 sounds like a great method! I will have to try it as soon as I get another dog.

 

For many the reasons you listed, I don't like luring either and DO like independent methods (like channels or 2x2).

 

Just a note - although 2x2 really is a clicker method - any method can be used with the clicker (I did!) and it really helps!

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by Kat's Dogs:

Just a note - although 2x2 really is a clicker method - any method can be used with the clicker (I did!) and it really helps!

Good point! When I taught the WAM's with the shelties, I was brand new to agility and really had no idea what I was doing. They were such good dogs to become skilled and reliable weavers. At that time, I didn't know anything about clicker training.

 

When it was time to train my Lhasa, I meant to do WAM's again but for some reason 2 x 2 really spoke to me. Of course, that time around while I had a clear and correct idea of the finished version of weaving, I was once again fumbling with a new method. Not sure if it was me or the dog (who can be a bit quirky) but 2 x 2 didn't actually go that smoothly. The finished product was very nice though.

 

I remained drawn to the method and (third time's the charm) with Quinn, weave training went very fast compared to my other dogs. A lot of it was his BC braininess and drive but me knowing what I was doing helped a lot too

 

The combo approach you used with Dazzle is a cool and creative way to go. A number of the top handlers combine methods, depending on what aspect of weaving they're working on. I don't think quick enough on my feet for that, but I admire trainers who do!

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by Kat's Dogs:

2x2 sounds like a great method! I will have to try it as soon as I get another dog.

Oh, I just thought of this. 2 x 2 is not a popular method of training weaves in my neck of the woods. I forget what one of my private lesson instructors cited as a common problem she's seen in dogs who learned with 2 x 2. While I totally respect her, my mind was already made up and I was keeping the faith. I never told Quinn's class instructor what method I was using at home, just had him run through her WAM's because I figured it wouldn't hurt.

 

Anyway, there may be legitimate concerns about 2 x 2, but every method has its pluses and minuses. That's where believing in your method (including a combo approach) and working it faithfully comes into play.

 

And of course, secretly I dream that Quinn will one day perform his weaves so stunningly at a big show where all my instructors witness it that they will come to me and as one ask how he was taught such perfect obstacle performance.

[bskeeter]

Kat's Dog,

 

If you don't mind, I am totally new to agility. Just beginning my Basic II session next week.

 

What is the "channel" method for the poles? I can see where BJ would be more focused on looking for the treat than paying attention to what he was doing, so maybe the luring won't be such a great way for him to learn the weave poles.

 

Thanks,

Deb

[Kat's Dogs]

Channels is where you "split" the poles apart so the dog just runs straight through them.

Like this:

 

 

 

You start by just calling the dog through them, then work from a target to get distance and independence, etc etc. Slowly you move the poles closer until they are in a straight line.

 

Here is a picture:

 

 

And then there are the V-channel ones like this:

 

 

There are a lot of books about training Channels, also there is a ton of in-depth info on the web about it if you want to know more.

[bskeeter]

Oh, wow. Thanks. I had actually printed out the pictures of the first two to see if my DH could make them after searching and searching on the web for places to get plans and such. I thought they would work great! What a coincidence.

 

The V-channel looks like it might work for BJ too.

 

I never thought I would become addicted to agility. Although I will have to say that folks on the board did warn me. It is a blast! and we haven't even left the ground yet.

[lovesbc's]

Thanks for everyone's responses!

 

We are just starting on weaves really, and we are using the 2x2 method and are doing ok so far. We are at the 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock positions so they are almost aligned! I was just curious on what else was out there because I'm so anxious to get weaving!

Here's a pic of the poles we made for Rocky and Sport to practice with:

[PSmitty]

In Lilly's old agility class, we were using the WAM (angled). She got "promoted" to the next level class, though, and suddenly the poles were closed. I got some stick in the ground type to practice at home and used the luring method. She now had decent weaves, including entries, but is S-L-O-W. So, I don't recommend the luring method.

 

My training club now has channel weaves, so if Jack ever starts training, he'll get taught using the channel method.

[abbies_mumma]

I taught abbie with v-channel. I just gradually made the poles closer together until they were straight.

[Tassie]

The one that worked best for my little bitch Kirra was the V weaves. And using a target/thrown toy at the end of the weaves, to get the dog driving through. I click correct performance of the weaves, and if it's incorrect, say nothothing or give a NRM and go back to the beginning. I also practise entries with just 4 weave poles. You stay on one side of the poles. so you can work with dog on the left, and then dog on the right, and get a lot of different entries in a short time. It has really helped her confidence, and mine.

 

I would agree on the importance of having the dog able to perform the weaves independently - Kirra is very fast, and I'm not! She now will only miss an entry if she's gone too fast towards the weaves - will overshoot the first gap. Our other weave problem is that she will pop at #10 if there's a very attractive obstacle coming up and/or I've lost concentration and am heading for hte next obstacle.

 

A good tip I picked up at a training camp recently was that if you're using V weaves, you should close them up starting at the far end - leaving the entry V'd until last. This was explained as helping to maintain and develop the dog's drive through the obstacle - makes sense to me.

[Kat's Dogs]

That (keeping the first poles open) makes a lot of sense. But when you did the V's, did she ever just hop through them instead of weaving? That is what Dazzle did because she wanted to go fast (and why I don't like them the most).

 

You can work enteries with just three poles too (they sell them advertising them like that) but I prefer working with 4 rather then three so the dog does more weaving. Just a note.

[Geoffrey]

I taught Zeke using luring because channels etc just made him run around them in confusion. It actually worked out rather well....he turned into the best weaver in his class Most consistent too, IMO.

 

However, I admit that luring has its downfalls. After you have the basics down you really have to work HARD to fade your hand out of the picture so the dog can weave independently.

 

That said, Zeke is working on "distance weaving" now, so it worked out in the end!

[Kat's Dogs]

I am happy to hear a luring sucess! Although I would only use it as a last resort myself - I am glad to know that it can be done!

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by Kat's Dogs:

But when you did the V's, did she ever just hop through them instead of weaving? That is what Dazzle did because she wanted to go fast (and why I don't like them the most).

Jumping in here. It's been 6 years since I used WAM's, I was training shelties and as a total beginner had no idea what I was doing. That said, in Quinn's class, the instructor (who does know what she's doing) has been using WAM's. I've repeatedly heard her telling people that they need to close the poles up more because their dogs are hopping through the weaves. I think where people can sometimes get bogged down with WAM's is being too slow to move the poles towards being straight up and down.

[Kat's Dogs]

Ahhh. With Dazzle I just had to move them in quickly (cuz the was hoppin') but she still wasn't perfect at weaving so I changed methods. I am glad to know that other then keeping the poles to far open I wasn't doing anything wrong!

[Tassie]

I don't remember Kirra trying to jump the poles, but my mad boy Fergus certainly does. So for him, I think it will be off-set/channel - maybe v'd a bit at first and then closing up.

[diane allen]

A friend has used Nancy Gyes' method of channels with x-pens to prevent "escapes." Worked like a wonder, in 6 weeks, and his weaves are to die for. Suggest checking Clean Run's web site for more info on how to do it.