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Hello! I'm thrilled to be part of the Border Collie club. :) So far, I'm loving my new puppy. He turned 11 weeks, this past weekend. I've had him for 2 weeks and have enjoyed watching him grow and develop his personality.

 

When I bought the puppy, the breeder told me it was a Brown Tri, even though he didn't have any of the light brown/tan color. He said that the puppy would grow into it. I noticed that his other litter-mates did have the light brown/tan color, so I thought it was odd he didn't have it, if he was in fact going to be a tri.

 

I am curious what you guys think. Do you see any signs of tri in him? Is this something that some puppies do grow into? I don't really care if he is tri or not, I'm just asking out of curiosity.

 

Here are two pictures that were taken over the weekend, at 11 weeks of age.

 

Thanks!

 

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Just like other tri's I imagine if you lift up his tail you will see lighter color at the base if he is a tri. Some have lots of lighter coloring others it is subtle. I have not had any red dogs but I would think you will see the color change there as you do with black tri pups.

 

Many of my bc's develop more color changes and ticking as they grow.

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I don't see any lightness under his tail at the base, but then again, that fur hasn't come in fully yet either. A week or two ago, I thought I did some some lighter spots on him when we were outside in good sunlight. Now I don't see any of that. I think his eyebrows are dependent upon lighting too. I suppose I will just have to give it some more time and see.

 

He is a bit of trouble, but his adorableness makes up for it. :) He's my first puppy, and actually my first ever dog too. I've fostered dogs and done lots of dog sitting, but never truly had one of my own! He just melts my heart every time I look at him. :wub:

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In your thread in the Gallery, there is a photo of you holding Fisher and he is kissing you. It looks like he has a light spot over the corner of one eye. I didn't detect the spot in any of the other photos. The lighting in your shots is not good. A photo taken outside in the sun would probably be more accurate. That being said, that one little light spot probably qualifies him as a tricolor. I have never heard of a BC being called brown, however. I only have heard red, and Fisher does look like a dark red. So I would say he is a red tri!

 

We have a red Tricolor. She is much darker in the winter. Summers, when she is out in the sun more, she lightens up. She has also developed some red ticking on her forelegs as she has gotten older. These things are fascinating to watch.

 

Kathy Robbins

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The tan around his butt (essentially surrounding his rectum) would be obvious if he's a tri. It's a consistent marker of tri. My tris have developed more tan over time, but they've all started with some tan. I don't see any evidence of tan points on your pup, but a look at his butt will be your definative answer. That is, lift his tail and look at his bum. It will be tan there or not and that will be your answer.

 

J.

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You learn something new every day, did not know tri has a butt marker :)

My favorite bc look would be a prick eared tri with long legs.

My next puppy (is about 5 weeks old now still living with mommy & littermates) is of course simply black and white, and unlikely to develop pricked ears...

Oh yeah, regardless of colour, it is a very cute puppy, enjoyed your pics in the gallery too.

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The tan around his butt (essentially surrounding his rectum) would be obvious if he's a tri. It's a consistent marker of tri. My tris have developed more tan over time, but they've all started with some tan. I don't see any evidence of tan points on your pup, but a look at his butt will be your definative answer. That is, lift his tail and look at his bum. It will be tan there or not and that will be your answer.

 

J.

 

No tan around his butt. I figured he wasn't tri, when I was comparing him to his siblings. I was tempted to go with a tri female, because of her coloring (even though I initially had wanted a male). My husband picked out Fisher, because he has a unique brown + white ear (even though he had initially wanted a female). We also liked the two spots on top of his head. I'm really happy with our puppy and love him to pieces, so his lack of light brown isn't a deal breaker.

 

In your thread in the Gallery, there is a photo of you holding Fisher and he is kissing you. It looks like he has a light spot over the corner of one eye. I didn't detect the spot in any of the other photos. The lighting in your shots is not good. A photo taken outside in the sun would probably be more accurate. That being said, that one little light spot probably qualifies him as a tricolor. I have never heard of a BC being called brown, however. I only have heard red, and Fisher does look like a dark red. So I would say he is a red tri!

 

We have a red Tricolor. She is much darker in the winter. Summers, when she is out in the sun more, she lightens up. She has also developed some red ticking on her forelegs as she has gotten older. These things are fascinating to watch.

 

Kathy Robbins

 

I'd love to be able to take photos outside in the sun, but unfortunately the sun is in short order here in Michigan in February. :(

 

As I'm new to Border Collies, I'm not terribly certain on the color wording. I had found this website through a Google search, which calls the color Chocolate (brown/red/liver). http://www.bordercollies.es/colors.html Is "red" the more accepted color term?

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The tan around his butt (essentially surrounding his rectum) would be obvious if he's a tri. It's a consistent marker of tri. My tris have developed more tan over time, but they've all started with some tan. I don't see any evidence of tan points on your pup, but a look at his butt will be your definative answer. That is, lift his tail and look at his bum. It will be tan there or not and that will be your answer.

 

J.

 

This. And it's not a matter of the fur having grown in. Tan under the tail is observable when they're tiny puppies.

 

From most of the pictures I'd say he's bi-color, (dark) red and white. On some it looks like he may have that tri eyebrow spot, but it could just be lighting.

 

Whatever he is, he's adorable. Enjoy him. :)

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Here in Australia, we call his colour chocolate or brown. As I understand it, in America, it is usually called red. Some may call it liver, but I think that term is more common in other breeds (I am thinking of liver spotted Dalmations here).

 

There is a colour for BCs which is properly called ee red. In America it can be called "Australian red", in Australia it is usually what we call red (or wheaten). It is the same gene that gives Golden Retrievers their colour, and can come range from quite a dark caramel colour to a very pale blonde.

 

I have found the website called the Border Collie Museum to have a good description and pictures of the different physical characteristics of BCs, including colours, ears, eyes etc. I recommend a visit!

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"Ghost tan" is still technically not a tri color and no, it can't show up on a brown dog. That is a variation on a black coat. The other name would be seal black.

 

The tri colors whose tan gets more visible with age are technically sable tri colors (as opposed to tan point tri colors).

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"Ghost tan" is still technically not a tri color and no, it can't show up on a brown dog. That is a variation on a black coat. The other name would be seal black.

 

The tri colors whose tan gets more visible with age are technically sable tri colors (as opposed to tan point tri colors).

 

Seal black is not the same thing. Seal is seal. 'Ghost tan' is when the points are, yeah, tri color but are partially hidden. There's a full explanation of the genetics in the link - it is similar to seal but it is not seal. Seal covers the entire dog - ghost tan literally does not - only the 'red' points.

 

It's thought that this is caused by something similar to seal (see above), where the K allele for some reason allows the A locus allele/s to show through very faintly.

 

 

Seal is currently a complete mystery. Seal colouration makes black dogs appear brownish (with the nose remaining black), varying from a slight brown cast to a shade almost as light as liver

 

Molly, quite literally, has points. Feet, chest, eyebrows, face - where a normal tri color would but rather than red-red, they're basically seal. It's not a general fade with darker bits.

 

Allso I should read my own link. It outright says it will affect red dogs.

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  • 2 weeks later...

One of my dogs (acquired as an adult; strictly working-bred, from a breeder with impeccable credentials) is black and white - according to her (ABCA) pedigree (her breeder was a vet, BTW). She's prematurely gray, and I thought that perhaps the gray hairs around her rectum/vulva, as well as around her eyebrows, were a result of that premature graying. I'd owned her a few months before I noticed (outdoors, in broad daylight) the touch of bridle on the lower part of her legs. Aha! She's really a tri! You just have to look hard. And sometimes even "experts" make mistakes.

 

That being said - i don't see any signs in your photos of your pup (what a cutie!) being a tri. But maybe we're not looking hard enough.

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