GentleLake Posted November 1, 2016 Report Share Posted November 1, 2016 I'm not surprised to hear it was Ace either. My vet no longer uses it for anything at all, and I don't think that's particularly uncommon. There are much better alternatives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 Yes. Ace is horrible stuff. I use Xanax with my dogs but it just barely slowed Joey down. But it was still a lot better than no meds at all. They were able to draw blood from him.He goes 90 miles an hour all of the time. We are trying another one to see if it works better. He doesn't bite. He just gets do upset he wigs out. Poor little guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Coyote Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 We are trying Trazadone. I haven't needed it yet and hopefully we won't need to go to the vet for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denice Posted November 2, 2016 Report Share Posted November 2, 2016 If he is a dog that believes Every thing is a big deal and most things are SCARY you may have to take things a wee little step at a time. Like I am going to touch your leg then once that is no big deal - I am going to touch your foot..I am touching your toe...I am picking up your leg,..holding your foot... and so on. Treat him like he is seeing/experiencing everything for the first time. Don't baby him, make it as matter of fact as possible but it sounds like you will have to break things down into 100 steps rather than 10. I would check with the breeder if possible to see if there are fear/reactive issues in other pups or the parents and what has or has not worked with them. I am amazed at the extent of genetics influences on small behaviors- how they play, how they roll in the grass - I can see it in lines. Sounds like he is lucky to have you to help him work through issues. I do not think dogs want to be scared, I always feel bad for them but trying different things can lead to improvement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuxedodog Posted November 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2016 There are only 2 awful things that can happen to Charley, you can touch his feet or his mouth. He is not crazy about people who sound old either,but he just pees when they talk to him. He was a rescue, so there is no one to ask. When we went to get him from the rescue we were first told don't look at him, don't try to touch him. We really haven't had an issue if we let him meet people on his own terms rather than letting people approach him. Talked to the folks at the vet's office and he would not be the first to be brought by to desensitize him to the office. I am glad they are willing to work with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuxedodog Posted November 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 I wanted to update you after our first vet's office flyby. We got to the vets and Charley was so wound up he wouldn't take a piece of hot dog. I decided it couldn't be any worse, so we got out, walked around and offered him another treat which he ignored. We walked in the front door, through the waiting room and out the exit and back into the car. Treats were offered and taken, it was a very positive outcome. We got home, had more treats and we played chuckit - Charley's favorite game. We are limited to Saturday mornings at this time due to my work schedule and the vet's hours, but this is going to be a Saturday morning activity for the foreseeable future. At some point we will sit in the office for a bit and continue from there. Thank you all for the good advice, I will update when we have more good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcv-border Posted November 12, 2016 Report Share Posted November 12, 2016 Thanks for the positive update. Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted November 13, 2016 Report Share Posted November 13, 2016 Slow and easy does it. Good work on your part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Mostly - what they all said. My experience: I have a rescue dog, no terrible history, but she missed a lot of that critical time not doing things that should have been experienced (getting nails done, handled by others, etc. etc.). I do believe she trusts me - and only two others of my friends. But she absolutely is not going to let me - or anyone else - clip or dremel her nails. I'm not a wuss either - but I do believe she could do serious damage to herself trying to get away from either of those methods. I can handle her feet and toes all day - and believe it or not, file them! I get super-coarse nail files, and she'll let me saw away till the cows go to the movies. My fingers get cramped, so often I'll do front feet one day, back feet the next. And yeah, I'm willing to live with this. Re the vet offices: She too hates them. I've been taking her into a new local clinic (with their blessings) as often as I can - weigh her, have anyone available feed her little treats, just be nice to her. I even take her in when my other dog needs something - she's fine with just hanging out. But she has minor eye and nose problems (crappy immune system, though neither are serious), and when a vet needs to get that close to her face - yep, she wears a soft muzzle. She can still take small treats with it on - so that's how she got used to it. Sometimes I'll put it on her when we "visit" the clinic - when nothing is being done. More treats! I can't say that she likes it, or is even 100% comfortable with it - but she tolerates it well, and we all feel safer. One time, I too tried the "take her in the room without me" for something minor, and got the same pee/poop reaction. She was so stressed - the look of relief on her face when I returned was something to behold. She did have some dental work done early on - they gave her the muscle relaxer injection, and let me walk her around until she was pretty out of it. I'm sure the day will come when she needs something more serious done, and we'll just have to deal with it. Back to your regularly scheduled programming, diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartful Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 Since I work in a veterinary clinic I will tell you that it is possible to get from point A - patient who is so scared that he defecates and urinates uncontrollably, offers to lunge and bite, to point B - still scared, but far less reactive and able to be worked with without sedation. It does take many visits and much patience from the staff. In training of behaviors it is common to ask for more than the dog can do, especially if they are doing well with the training. If he allows you to touch his foot once, it is important to give a big break to relieve the pressure while telling him how amazing he is and finish with a play session (proven in dogs to solidify learning). Better yet - teach him to offer his feet, as was mentioned. Then you have to repeat the entire process with nail clippers in hand, then touching a foot with the clippers, then clipping the actual nail...as you can see, a long process.... Teach him to put his own muzzle into a basket muzzle that you can put on him at home and then go to the vet with it on. The thing with using a muzzle in this way, is that for every time he has it on for an unpleasant experience, you need to have it on 100 other times with many, many rewards. Agreed that acepromazine is probably not a great option - If they need to sedate him Butorphanol is effective, in my experience. Good luck!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted November 24, 2016 Report Share Posted November 24, 2016 Just for the record, Heartfelt, I did the clipper "orientation" (for lack of a better term) for a solid two months - left the clippers where she could see them during her favorite belly rubs, etc. etc. etc. I can touch her feet with them, I can hold a nail in one hand with the clippers in the other hand, but as soon as the clipper gets close to her foot - bam! She's off like a rocket. I totally believe in positive reinforcement (well, maybe not 100% but pretty damn close), and tried my darnest. It just didn't work. Good thing is - mine is pretty OK with the muzzle. She gets it on about once a week, with lots and lots of treats. And sometimes in the vet office when nothing is being done. But when The Time comes, she won't have a positive association with it, I'm sure. But we'll keep working on it. diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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