Come Bye Border Collie Rescue

[Riika]

Gloria, good points, both of those. A couple of the things I was referring too are ones I've read that say your dog always has to have a collar with tags on it. My dogs don't wear collars.

Or that they can't be left outside unattended, ever, or tied, ever, or crated more than x amount of hours, ever, or put down for any reason without contacting the rescue.

For the last, if my dog ever got so seriously injured that I was sure there was no way of saving him, (vet verified) dog's in agony, etc. there is no way I'd be waiting around for somebody else to give me the permission to put the poor dog down.

The collar one makes sense, but doesn't really pertain to me.

I guess they mostly get under my skin because even though it's your dog, it's not really-you know what I mean?

[moosikins]

I'd wait until the dog was a year or so old to even start with SMS because I think the puppy basics need to be trained at home, with no outside influences. We trained Cal a decent amount before SMS and really honed in on her paying attention after a year. She knew sit, down, pretty, and a few others were iffy like "Come" because she was always so distracted, before we started SMS.

 

I wouldn't automatically throw a collar on a pup. I just know that it's a realistic approach for our family.

 

I have been following this thread, and at this point, I am scratching my head as to why you would jump to the conclusion that you would bring a puppy to the SMS training. I understand that Cal had issues that you have worked through with the SMS trainers, but to immediately assume that a puppy should follow the same strategy limits your possibilities for training. Why not start with the positive reinforcement methods? I am sure that the puppy would respond very well.

[moosikins]

That's why I said that the black one caught my eye but we need to meet all her sisters too and hopefully one of them has the right personality for our home. Basically, we would all have to really click with the pup to take it home.

 

The black one just caught my eye immediately because it's a doppledog! <3 I have a soft spot for black dogs with white socks! But her sisters are precious too!

 

That's kind of how we ended up with Cal. We saw her sister's picture on Facebook and went to see the whole litter. I picked a golden-looking one and my husband picked Cal. Then we played with them for a loooooong time before we decided that Cal's personality was a better fit for us personality-wise and the rest is history.

 

I don't know the rescue, and I won't comment on the collar topic - it's been said well enough. (Oh, biting my tongue here....)

 

My point is this: (and it's not directed solely at this thread.....it happens ALL the time!)

Yes, we all have some preferences about color, patterns, ear set, coat, etc. etc.

(I admit I do....)

 

BUT - it always makes me more than a bit nervous when someone says, "Oh, that dog is so cute! He looks like XXX. I want!"

Sure, a dog has to appeal to you in looks.

But there is sooooooo much more involved in choosing a dog/pup!

 

If it's coming from a good rescue, they should have more info to help you decide if that dog is the right one for you.

Laid back/couch potato? Probably not a good fit for someone looking for a sports dog.

Chases and kills chickens? Probably not a good fit for someone who has chickens or a neighbor with wandering ones.

Full of pep and vigor/needs "room to run" ? Probably not a good fit for great-grandma.

 

My point is: sure, look at a photo and think about it. Then start asking questions.

 

My latest "acquisition" (now 4 yr old, from Arizona Border Collie Rescue) is not one I would have chosen from a photo. She's tri colored (not my pref), she's small (not *too* small, but doing agility at "lesser" heights, my choice), and she had some health issues (one I knew about before, one I didn't - which can happen with any). But her personality more than made up for those things!

 

Hope this helpful, it isn't meant to be hurtful to anyone. Please just consider ALL aspects of a dog before bringing him/her into your life!

 

diane

[moosikins]

Clarification: It's a realistic possibility in the long term, that we might do SMS for both dogs. If the second dog has better responsiveness to treats/toys/anything, we'll use that to our advantage for training.

 

It really comes down to the fact that Cal has zero external motivations if she doesn't feel like doing something. I've never had a more stubborn dog and I've had and attended training classes with dogs my entire life, including a black lab/rottie that went through the police academy program. The collar doesn't force her to listen - she has days where she flat out refuses to cooperate with me and I don't keep buzzing her. We just stop training and do other enjoyable activities that are free from restrictions like fetch or just going to the beach. We also take a ton of walks where she's not heeling or doing anything but sniffing trees and everything else within reach.

 

I know SMS does not have a limit for the levels on the remote that they're (by practice and theory) willing to go, but I do. I know she shakes her head at a 4 because it's uncomfortable so I will never go above a 4. If she's showing me that she doesn't like it, we're done. We take it off, take a potty break, get some water, play a little, etc and try again in 5-10 minutes to see if she's decided that she's ready to work at the vibe setting.

 

We work at the vibe setting when we can, which is often. Her usual is a 2 out of 7. That's barely a tap and most people can't even feel a 2. And yes, I have actually put the collar on my neck. I might be a weirdo but I wasn't about to stick it on her unless I know how she felt. It does not hurt on the lower numbers and I don't let anyone bump her up.

 

I'd wait until the dog was a year or so old to even start with SMS because I think the puppy basics need to be trained at home, with no outside influences. We trained Cal a decent amount before SMS and really honed in on her paying attention after a year. She knew sit, down, pretty, and a few others were iffy like "Come" because she was always so distracted, before we started SMS.

 

I wouldn't automatically throw a collar on a pup. I just know that it's a realistic approach for our family.

[CptJack]

Okay, couple of things here:

 

1-) A year old is still very much a puppy. Not a baby puppy, no, but by no means grown into themselves.

 

2.) You are still defaulting to saying 'this is how I want to train my dog'. That means you're not using a collar to deal with a specific problem or specific dog. That's saying this is a way of training you are entirely comfortable with and a means of training you intend to continue in all future dogs. Regardless of personality or problems with the dogs. Because it fits *your family*, not because it fits the dog.

That is an issue.

A big issue.

ETA: Then you clarified. So you know. Mostly disregard this. We were basically posting at once.

But seriously, this kind of training needs to be a back pocket, last ditch effort in training a dog who has problems that threaten their safety, someone else's safety, or the ability to stay in their home because of MAJOR issues. Anything else is frankly radically unfair to the dog. And expecting to go straight to that?

Well, if your favorite tool's a hammer, you're going to start looking for nails.

[moosikins]

As of the e-mail, I guess I felt a moment of immaturity. Honestly, I probably wouldn't even bother. I'd keep looking for the perfect second dog for my family. As I've said before, I'm confident we can provide a great home for a pup!

 

And I can't emphasize this enough...I believe in SMS as a training guide but I understand that there are flaws. I'm not handing my dog off to be trained like a zombie or robot by standardized methods. We're applying some training goals to our unique dog in our unique way. We know Cal's personality, likes, dislikes, and abilities. We'll do the same with any pup we get, we'll feel out the dog first, get to know him/her well, form a bond, and when the dog is mature enough, we'll begin therapy dog training.

 

And if appropriate, we'll also do SMS based training with the second dog as well. But who knows, maybe this one will want to be trained and won't have so much sass. We've had several dog trainers tell us what a sassy, attitude-y dog she is and how weird of a BC she is. She's also part Lab and who knows what else in there - she's got the BC quirks and obsessions, but she is NOT an easy to train dog by any means! Extremely smart, yes. But also so, so, SO very stubborn.

[CptJack]

Here's the thing, OP:

These collars work by providing an unpleasant consequence to the dog. The dog doesn't like what happens if you have to tap that collar. Whether it hurts a lot or a little, it is enough to stop the dog from doing the thing you don't want. That's the 'art' aspect, as it were - finding something that bothers your dog enough to deter it, without being so much it shuts the dog down. If it did not bother your dog, if she did not dislike it, it would not work.

That is the NATURE of the thing. It's the nature of all aversive training. If it was pleasant for the dog, you'd use it to reward her. You don't. You use it as a punisher.

And sometimes? That's appropriate. And clearly you're not punishing hard enough to give your dog a major issue, and she's resilient and it's okay, but. Stop trying to convince yourself that you stop when your dog doesn't like it. Your dog never likes it. If your dog liked it, she'd get 'tapped' for what you want her to do as a reward, instead of the opposite. What you'v got is a dog who likes working enough to work through some levels of discomfort and smart enough to find the lesson in it. She's a BC mix - that's not a surprise.

odds are high, and in fact I'd bet, this training method works so well because it makes YOU thoughtful, and clear, and consistent.

Not because your dog needs the collar in particular.

Within reason, that's fine, but you might seriously consider the fact that if you improved YOUR general training skills even your current dog wouldn't need such methods and certainly future ones would not.

 

"Doesn't have external motivators" is not some big unique special snowflake thing. It's as trainable/teachable as anything else.

[moosikins]

It's not like the dog turns a year old and I'll automatically slap a collar on. I'm using "one year" as a general term for not a baby with major impulse issues. A puppy is exploring her environment, scoping out the world, forming bonds, and developing likes and dislikes. I'm not going to influence any of that with a collar. I'm an observer for the first year, I guess. We train good habits like house training through repetition.

 

Cal's 2.5ish and she's not fully matured I don't think. But she's also not an impulsive thing anymore either, she's really come into herself in terms of her intelligence and focusing in the last 6-8 months or so. Something we really didn't see much of in the first year - she was all over the place then and now she's settled into some distinctly more mature behaviors.

 

Okay, couple of things here:

 

1-) A year old is still very much a puppy. Not a baby puppy, no, but by no means grown into themselves.

 

2.) You are still defaulting to saying 'this is how I want to train my dog'. That means you're not using a collar to deal with a specific problem or specific dog. That's saying this is a way of training you are entirely comfortable with and a means of training you intend to continue in all future dogs. Regardless of personality or problems with the dogs. Because it fits *your family*, not because it fits the dog.

That is an issue.

A big issue.

[Tommy Coyote]

One of my customers adopted a Boston from rescue. She was so nervous about the home visit and that she stayed home from work and cleaned the whole house.

 

The people came in and sat down in the living room. They just wanted to be sure that the home was ok and that the dog would be ok there. Of course, these owners passed because they are wonderful dog owners and wonderful people. They don't have a fence around the yard but they always take the dog out on a leash. She is never loose.

 

I don't think that is a ridiculous rule at all. What if they got there and the home was a filthy mess. Or what if there were 20 other dogs in the house. Or what if the people were drunks or drug addicts. Or what if there were really small children that could have hurt such a small dog? There are people out there that have no business with a pet of any kind and a rescue would be negligent if they didn't recognize that fact.

 

These visitors were just making sure this was an ok home for this dog. And she is very happy there and gets wonderful care.

[moosikins]

Guys, I know fundamentally many of you disagree with the collar. I'm not going to defend it any more and I'm also not taking offense at your criticism because many of you are obviously experience trainers and have many years of experience with a variety of dogs.

 

Thank you for all of your feedback, especially regarding the rescue. <3

 

I will however add one last point because it's entirely true. I just scrolled up and saw CptJack's comment about me being more thoughtful and aware as a trainer and the success not being entirely based on the collar. I totally agree - it's made me SO much more aware of every single action I take and ask her to take, and way more aware of her attention and where it's directed. I think that's a huuuuuge thing for us. I feel like I know her so much better now that we've placed such an emphasis on training in general. We do a huge amount of training off collar now and lately, off leash, and it's been SO fun for both of us.

 

My husband is getting jealous I think of how bonded Cal and I have gotten, especially after our therapy dog training. She's way attached to me lately, which could be related to me being pregnant again, but I suspect its because she believes in me now and I really believe in her. She seems calmer and way more confident now and our trainer mentioned that recently too.

 

She actually escaped from the house yesterday without any collars on (not even tags!) because she thought she was coming with me when I went to clean my car. I just told her "Callie, go home!" and she flounced back in the house and sat in the open doorway.

[Sue R]

I can picture her, flouncing and sitting in the doorway with a very disapproving look on her face.

[moosikins]

I don't mind the home visit at all. I think it's a good idea to ensure that the home is as the adopter says. I kind of wish that was a possibility at the shelter I volunteered with. I processed adoptions and there were some that I wish I could have verified a bit more because it just didn't feel right...but I was obligated to allow the animal to go home with the person. And some that were turned down because of stupid reasons like having been forced to surrender an animal previously (like 5 years previously...) for financial reasons. She sent that dog in with the full surrender fee, a bed, toys, food, and a note that explained everything there was to know about the dog and that she prayed every night for a month that she could find a way to keep her baby but just couldn't manage and instead now prayed that she would find a wonderful home for the rest of her days. The lady got back on her feet and really wanted another dog and thought the best place to go for one to add to her family was the shelter that had helped her in her bad circumstances. Instead, she was apparently unfit to adopt any animals ever again.

 

We also had two dogs end up getting "flipped" on Craigslist and it was heartbreaking. One ended up getting bought by a known dog fighter and came back in bad shape and the whole staff was in tears over it. He recovered very nicely but his sweet personality was definitely damaged. It was the last straw for me before I moved exclusively to dog enrichment - I didn't like being told that I had to adopt to people who gave me an uneasy feeling. I left that up to the staff because they had a lot more leeway to deny adoptions whereas volunteers had no say. The second dog got picked off Craigslist by the humane officer who also arrested the offender for animal abuse because it was a mini hoarding situation. That dog was fine and found a real home really quickly after.

 

One of my customers adopted a Boston from rescue. She was so nervous about the home visit and that she stayed home from work and cleaned the whole house.

 

The people came in and sat down in the living room. They just wanted to be sure that the home was ok and that the dog would be ok there. Of course, these owners passed because they are wonderful dog owners and wonderful people. They don't have a fence around the yard but they always take the dog out on a leash. She is never loose.

 

I don't think that is a ridiculous rule at all. What if they got there and the home was a filthy mess. Or what if there were 20 other dogs in the house. Or what if the people were drunks or drug addicts. Or what if there were really small children that could have hurt such a small dog? There are people out there that have no business with a pet of any kind and a rescue would be negligent if they didn't recognize that fact.

 

These visitors were just making sure this was an ok home for this dog. And she is very happy there and gets wonderful care.

[moosikins]

You would not believe the faces this dog makes!

 

I can picture her, flouncing and sitting in the doorway with a very disapproving look on her face.

[moosikins]

Let's go from your last statement then, help me become better! I'll listen!

 

What are the options for motivation when treats work minimally effectively (holds her attention for 2-5 minutes and then she stops caring). Withholding her dinner and using it to train isn't effective because she gets so crabby and hangry that she can't do anything even remotely close to listen, not even her most basic command "sit" that she's known since she was 9 weeks old. Toys just aren't interesting - she plays fetch with us for 5-10 min but it's not good enough to train. If I try to train between fetches, she just walks away and lays down. Bones, stuffies, etc have the same effect. Playing just to play is good, but as soon as it is structured, she's done.

 

As I was typing that I realized I should try to see if I can use a "break for puzzles" as the motivation because that is one thing she likes...Getting into stuff like zipped bags, small spaces, and crevices. If she trains nicely with me for even a few moments, she'll get to go hunt down a hidden treat...Thoughts on that? Maybe she'll get right away that her reward is finding stuff?

 

Here's the thing, OP:

These collars work by providing an unpleasant consequence to the dog. The dog doesn't like what happens if you have to tap that collar. Whether it hurts a lot or a little, it is enough to stop the dog from doing the thing you don't want. That's the 'art' aspect, as it were - finding something that bothers your dog enough to deter it, without being so much it shuts the dog down. If it did not bother your dog, if she did not dislike it, it would not work.

That is the NATURE of the thing. It's the nature of all aversive training. If it was pleasant for the dog, you'd use it to reward her. You don't. You use it as a punisher.

And sometimes? That's appropriate. And clearly you're not punishing hard enough to give your dog a major issue, and she's resilient and it's okay, but. Stop trying to convince yourself that you stop when your dog doesn't like it. Your dog never likes it. If your dog liked it, she'd get 'tapped' for what you want her to do as a reward, instead of the opposite. What you'v got is a dog who likes working enough to work through some levels of discomfort and smart enough to find the lesson in it. She's a BC mix - that's not a surprise.

odds are high, and in fact I'd bet, this training method works so well because it makes YOU thoughtful, and clear, and consistent.

Not because your dog needs the collar in particular.

Within reason, that's fine, but you might seriously consider the fact that if you improved YOUR general training skills even your current dog wouldn't need such methods and certainly future ones would not.

 

"Doesn't have external motivators" is not some big unique special snowflake thing. It's as trainable/teachable as anything else.

[Blackdawgs]

Actually, I have a BC that is very hard to motivate and considered using an e collar on her. I had an intractable fence fighting situation for many years and then there was the sheep and donkey incidents. She very easily could have been shot with the sheep and had her head kicked in by the donkey.

 

Nonetheless, I managed to put some agility titles on her, but stopped because she was not physically or temperamentally suited to the game and I realized one day that she was running for me. Because she finally trusted me. And I discovered quite by accident that she loved sweets. She was rewarded after her agility runs with pound cake and donut holes.

 

These days I can call her off the fence. And she can sit in a crowded vets office without blowing off at dogs. Because she trusts me.

 

I decided a long time ago that she was what she was, so I let her be. With time, she learned to make the right choices.

 

Without the use of batteries.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Ms. Mooskins,

 

Please ask yourself what you want from your Border Collie. Agility competitor? Mannerly pet? OTCH? Open Trial competitor? These are NOT the same goals and how you train may, or may not, achieve them.

 

Mannerly family pet is - almost always - a piece of cake.

 

Border Collies are a lot less complicated than our different training theories because, unlike many breeds, they really do want to please you, so long as what you want makes dog sense. Do what generations of non-dog-savvy farmers have done with these beasts: praise (or say nothing) when it's doing right, correct it (harsh voice or body language) when it's wrong.

 

Pay ATTENTION and don't overthink! You needn't know anything about clickers or ecollars to train a family companion.

 

Take the opportunity to meet dog savvy people - get to some obedience or agility trials. Talk to the handlers. attend a sheepdog trial - it's how your dog was bred. I greatly admire people who train all breeds but I sure as hell couldn't do it. Border Collies are so much easier.

 

Donald McCaig

[CptJack]

As I was typing that I realized I should try to see if I can use a "break for puzzles" as the motivation because that is one thing she likes...Getting into stuff like zipped bags, small spaces, and crevices. If she trains nicely with me for even a few moments, she'll get to go hunt down a hidden treat...Thoughts on that? Maybe she'll get right away that her reward is finding stuff?

 

I'm missing some of your post thanks to the device I'm reading on (the touch screen doesn't want to let me scroll up anymore!) but my thoughts on that are that it's fantastic!

 

I have definitely worked with hard to motivate dogs. I grew up with hounds, owned a pyr, and have a pain in the butt GSD/Pyr mix now. It's *easiest* when what the dog wants most is something you can give them, like a treat or a toy, for sure, but anything the dog has fun doing can be a reward.

 

I would probably use those puzzles the same way I have used 'go sniff!' (Or 'chase the squirrel then!) with past dogs, or 'Okay, fine, you can jump all over and bite at me' with Thud (no toy drive, just loved biting and being physical) for giving me engagement, focus, and training. Which is to say, exactly like you said. Get the activity on a cue (Go play!, or whatever) and then, yep, start easy and start working it in as a reward. The key here is to start *SIMPLE* so she's having success and you can build value in the activity for which she is rewarded (working with you) and in the reward (it's a cyclic thing with many dogs - they value it more when they work for it, they value the work more for valuing the reward more).

 

(Total aside, I HAVE used shock collars - for snake aversion training, and have no qualms. But it's not really something I'd want at the center of my relationship. I want the dog to trust me, and I want to be able to trust the DOG, independent of any equipment.)

[urge to herd]

I'm nowhere near as experienced as many others who have responded, but one thing jumped at me in your request for options - she only works for 2-5 minutes before blowing you off.

 

So work for one minute. Give her praise, a treat, a ball or tug toy or whatever floats her boat, and STOP. Work, very very slowly, on building duration of her capacity to work with you. Start small, build slowly. Work just 2-3 times a day.

 

And just for giggles, my Shoshone loved to shred paper. She didn't eat it, would spit it out quickly, but she loved ripping it apart! I'd hold out a couple pieces of junk mail and she'd go to town. Growled at it, shook it to make sure it was dead, pulled it out of my hand. Try a lot of different types of things to see what really sets off fireworks for your girl.

 

Gibbs loves me to rub his ribs, a good amount of pressure with my palms, back and forth over his ribcage several times. When I stop, he turns around and 'assumes the position' again, then gives me The Look. Your dog might have some off-beat thing that she LOVES. If you can discover that, it will be a big help.

 

Lastly, good for you for asking for options! Hope you see something that you can use in all the excellent advice.

 

Ruth and Gibbs

[CptJack]

Ah, that was one of the things I missed - YES.

NEVER let her end the session and that doesn't mean you force her to go, it means you *stop* before that. Then you move on. Think of it as mental conditioning. It'll prevent/break the habit of her blowing you off and you can absolutely build on it as you go along and she's more used to it.

That said, I don't think even my elite agility dog works more than 5 minutes at training at a time. Yeah, we might do 5-6 sessions in a day (now - now that she really loves the training game), but a half=hour session at a go? Lol - NO. Not that dog! Five minutes of training, then fetch, or dinner, or a TV show, or just life. Get back to it later. She's not a dog with high mental stamina (or a BC, for that matter).

Good news: 6 5 minute sessions still adds up to an hour and it doesn't mentally fry or shut her down like longer sessions are inclined to.

 

Just. Break it up. I often do a bit while I'm prepping dinner, or ask for something before I feed them or during a commercial break. So it's not like it's taking big bites out of my day, either.

[moosikins]

I'm sure if I was willing to branch out dietary wise I could find something that motivates her since treats are as close as it comes. But this dog has absurd allergies and I absolutely cannot justify feeding her sweets. She does get spoiled with the occasional tiny bite of pasta or some bread (she does get meat in addition to her kibble fairly regularly but meat isn't a super high value thing, oddly enough). She adores cheese...but we use bites in moderation and mostly for getting her to take her meds (we're back to Benydryl but so far so good, holding off the raw paws for now while we search for a new vet to address her stupid allergies).

 

Our aim is friendly family pet, motivation to stay extra active for the whole family, and amicable therapy dog which both she and I thoroughly enjoy as we've now found out. Honestly, the therapy work might be her ultimate motivation. She wants to go do that stuff so perhaps she'll just adopt a "working" mentality when we go to places. 90% of that work is generally collar-free and what we've done so far has been 100% (meaning we haven't actually gone to any places on official therapy dog work detail that she's worn a collar). She's also been 100% "on" in these places - top notch listening and beautiful behavior and recall.

 

 

Actually, I have a BC that is very hard to motivate and considered using an e collar on her. I had an intractable fence fighting situation for many years and then there was the sheep and donkey incidents. She very easily could have been shot with the sheep and had her head kicked in by the donkey.

 

Nonetheless, I managed to put some agility titles on her, but stopped because she was not physically or temperamentally suited to the game and I realized one day that she was running for me. Because she finally trusted me. And I discovered quite by accident that she loved sweets. She was rewarded after her agility runs with pound cake and donut holes.

 

These days I can call her off the fence. And she can sit in a crowded vets office without blowing off at dogs. Because she trusts me.

 

I decided a long time ago that she was what she was, so I let her be. With time, she learned to make the right choices.

 

Without the use of batteries.

[Blackdawgs]

Taking the time to build trust was more important than the donuts and pound cake.

[Cass C]

I highly recommend the book 'When Pigs Fly!' By Jane Killion. It is all about training unmotivated dogs with positive reinforcement. That is if you're serious about making the switch. It did wonders for my hard to motivate BC/golden mix.

[D'Elle]

Just to touch again on the topic of how rescues operate and the rules they have for adoption.

Those rules are there for very good reasons, and most have been adopted as a result of there being terrible consequences for a one or more dogs when those rules were not in place. These include but are not limited to flippers, dog fighting, hoarding situations, abusive people, and crazy people.

 

It certainly doesn't mean that the dog doesn't belong to you, just because the rescue wants to know if you are rehoming the dog or euthanizing the dog. Or that the rescue is being intrusive to want to come to our home. It is simply necessary.

 

I did a home check one time in which I had talked to the people on the phone ahead of time. They sounded great, very reasonable and enthusiastic and loving and all of that, and I went there thinking it would probably be a good home. Walked in the door to total chaos. They were hoarders, and I could hardly squeeze through their house from one room to another for the junk and garbage strewn everywhere. There was no available horizontal surface upon which to sit. They had three large filthy dogs with bad teeth who jumped all over me and never stopped barking. Their back yard was carpeted in dog poop and chicken droppings to the point that it was literally impossible to avoid stepping in it, and everyone tracked it back into the house without caring. They had one child who seemed to be developmentally disabled in some way and who tried to kick a dog as it went past. They said that the reason that they wanted a border collie puppy was that they had problems disciplining their youngest and largest dog and so they wanted a puppy for that dog, so that that dog "would have something to do".

 

Now, these were people I probably would have adopted to if I had based it on the phone conversation.

People can be very deceptive in how they sound. You HAVE to see their house to know what is really going on.

 

Now, that having been said, I have refused to adopt to people without a good fence. I also have OK'd people who had no fence at all. I OK'd a young woman who lived in about a 250 sq. ft. flat and had no yard. I OK'd a couple who already had six dogs and five cats. The rules are there for good reasons, but for most rescues they are not cast in stone. It always depends on the circumstances, how things are being kept, how the animals there seem to be behaving and are handled, and so on. Sometimes it also depends a little bit on finances - the couple with lots of animals had lots of room and plenty of money to take the best care of them and feed them all very high quality food and keep them groomed.

 

If I want to adopt a dog, they can come and see every room in my house. I would answer any question. I have nothing to hide, and if you have nothing to hide you don't mind if the rescue is being careful. Many of these dogs came from bad situations into rescue. It is the rescue's job, and sacred duty, to make certain to the very best of our abilities that this particular dog never has to go through something bad at the hands of their owner again. Anything less would be irresponsible.

[Sue R]

You would not believe the faces this dog makes!

 

There are scientists who insist that dogs do not have the facial musculature to make faces. They obviously have not interacted with dogs...

[GentleLake]

Just to touch again on the topic of how rescues operate and the rules they have for adoption.

Those rules are there for very good reasons, and most have been adopted as a result of there being terrible consequences for a one or more dogs when those rules were not in place. These include but are not limited to flippers, dog fighting, hoarding situations, abusive people, and crazy people....

 

Thanks for that great post, D'Elle. I'd written a long post along those lines, though distinctly different, but sadly I lost it when my recently unreliable internet connection cut out again.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that the overwhelming majority of rescue and shelter folks' most fervent wish is that their jobs and avocations would disappear. They implement these rules so that the dogs they place don't bounce back. Revolving door situations eat up valuable resources, including peoples' time, that could be better utilized rescuing yet another dog that needs help.